World Handicap System (WHS)

[Deleted member 15344]

And it can be checked and card deleted.

As I said theoretically it’s spot on , check score , suspect delete etc but practically a lot of clubs will struggle “if” the uptake is what it seems and that’s more than what they expected

There are going to be a lot of incorrect scores imo that will slip through the net along with people finding ways to manipulate the system - and it appears a lot easier to do that these days than previously. As someone said a lot of it relies on trust - and the majority of people we know we can trust - but there are plenty out there we know that already find ways to manipulate their handicap

 

[rulefan]

There is of course 'peer review' where anyone is supposed to be able to check anyone else's score - but will anyone bother?

 

[Old Skier]

There is of course 'peer review' where anyone is supposed to be able to check anyone else's score - but will anyone bother?

I have left someone who scored my card to verify my score which unfortunately there is an issue because he can’t work out how to do it. So as verification is required cheating will involve two people.

 

[PJ87]

I have left someone who scored my card to verify my score which unfortunately there is an issue because he can’t work out how to do it. So as verification is required cheating will involve two people.

Which always was the case wasn't it?

If he can't work out it came through to me as a message in my inbox on the app

 

[jim8flog]

Personally I cannot see much difference between pre WHS and post WHS.

The app on IG was available before WHS as was the manual system of submitting supplementary scores. If 2 players wanted to collude they could do so then. We did have a slight problem with one player submitting a score every time he played and it could be seen from the booking sheet he was on his own and words were had.

 

[Swango1980]

Personally I cannot see much difference between pre WHS and post WHS.

The app on IG was available before WHS as was the manual system of submitting supplementary scores. If 2 players wanted to collude they could do so then. We did have a slight problem with one player submitting a score every time he played and it could be seen from the booking sheet he was on his own and words were had.

The big difference is pre WHS, any score that was entered by the player had to be accepted by Committee BEFORE touching his handicap record. Under WHS, the score that is entered by the player goes straight to his record with no checks by Committee.

 

[PJ87]

The big difference is pre WHS, any score that was entered by the player had to be accepted by Committee BEFORE touching his handicap record. Under WHS, the score that is entered by the player goes straight to his record with no checks by Committee.

But what's the issue really? The most anyone could increase their handicap is 5 within a year but to do so they have to get rid of their good rounds not their bad ones?

 

[nickjdavis]

There is a simple report that HC Sec have access to that shows the daily input of scores to the WHS DB whether submitted via ISV or EG App.

n.

What system is this report available in?

I cant find such a thing in HandicapMaster. (not saying it is not there....just cant find it!!)

 

[Swango1980]

But what's the issue really? The most anyone could increase their handicap is 5 within a year but to do so they have to get rid of their good rounds not their bad ones?

Nothing wrong, if you are comfortable there will be likely be many more incorrect scores entered into the system I guess.

 

[rosecott]

What system is this report available in?

I cant find such a thing in HandicapMaster. (not saying it is not there....just cant find it!!)

I suspect he meant on the WHS platform.

 

[nickjdavis]

I suspect he meant on the WHS platform.

I misread the post to read that the report would tell you which app the score was submitted via. I was aware of the report on the WHS site...was thinking there was another one that would deliver more detail about the manner of score submission.

Reading the post again I can see that I've misinterpreted what it was saying.

 

[Swango1980]

Had our first instance yesterday where a player didn't bother submitting his score on howdidido for the competition.

Under the old handicap system, it would have been easy to close the competition at a defined deadline and put the guy as an NR I suppose.

Because of WHS, the competition secretary stayed up to 11pm to see if he'd send his score (trying to.contact the guy several times without success), despite having to be up for work at 5am. He then messaged all the players saying the competition wouldn't be closed that day as one player had failed to submit a score, and we are trying to get it.

He got a reply this morning. The guy said he couldn't find his ball on 15th, and couldn't be bothered going back to tee. So he stopped playing and didn't hand in his card.

So now I have to contact the chap and remind him of his responsibilities for handicap. No doubt the first time of many. Pain in the neck.

Two questions, just to help clarification:

1. In this situation, assuming there is no means to find his scores, should we put 0 for every hole on Club V1 and it will sort out penalty scores?
2. Let us say he completed all holes, but just didn't hand in his card. But, we could find his scores on someone elses card. Presumably we'd enter those scores for him. But, is there an option to then DQ him in Club V1 for a no return. I don't run the competition side, so just wondering how club V1 would deal with the score in terms of handicap and in terms of competition result

 

[rulefan]

Why did the comp sec need to close the comp? All the returned scores would have gone to the WHS overnight for handicapping anyway. The comp only needs to be closed for result purposes and that could have been done the next day or even later.

 

[2blue]

Had our first instance yesterday where a player didn't bother submitting his score on howdidido for the competition.

Under the old handicap system, it would have been easy to close the competition at a defined deadline and put the guy as an NR I suppose.

Because of WHS, the competition secretary stayed up to 11pm to see if he'd send his score (trying to.contact the guy several times without success), despite having to be up for work at 5am. He then messaged all the players saying the competition wouldn't be closed that day as one player had failed to submit a score, and we are trying to get it.

He got a reply this morning. The guy said he couldn't find his ball on 15th, and couldn't be bothered going back to tee. So he stopped playing and didn't hand in his card.

So now I have to contact the chap and remind him of his responsibilities for handicap. No doubt the first time of many. Pain in the neck.

Two questions, just to help clarification:

1. In this situation, assuming there is no means to find his scores, should we put 0 for every hole on Club V1 and it will sort out penalty scores?
2. Let us say he completed all holes, but just didn't hand in his card. But, we could find his scores on someone elses card. Presumably we'd enter those scores for him. But, is there an option to then DQ him in Club V1 for a no return. I don't run the competition side, so just wondering how club V1 would deal with the score in terms of handicap and in terms of competition result

We had 4 cards not returned on Sat so they were simply DQ'd & 0's added at Comp close, 10pm...... emailed giving 24hrs to supply scores/reasons otherwise (on 1st occassion) score will be removed from WHS Platform..... 2nd occassion Penalty score administered. It transpired that 1 guy was 'fiddling' with App & entered Comp but never intended to play (not on BRS) others returned scores with apologies. We think & hope it will settle down. We have 4 of us in H/cap Team, 2 of us doing the detail stuff. Got to get your CTC's fine tuned.

 

[wjemather]

Had our first instance yesterday where a player didn't bother submitting his score on howdidido for the competition.

Under the old handicap system, it would have been easy to close the competition at a defined deadline and put the guy as an NR I suppose.

Because of WHS, the competition secretary stayed up to 11pm to see if he'd send his score (trying to.contact the guy several times without success), despite having to be up for work at 5am. He then messaged all the players saying the competition wouldn't be closed that day as one player had failed to submit a score, and we are trying to get it.

He got a reply this morning. The guy said he couldn't find his ball on 15th, and couldn't be bothered going back to tee. So he stopped playing and didn't hand in his card.

So now I have to contact the chap and remind him of his responsibilities for handicap. No doubt the first time of many. Pain in the neck.

Two questions, just to help clarification:

1. In this situation, assuming there is no means to find his scores, should we put 0 for every hole on Club V1 and it will sort out penalty scores?
2. Let us say he completed all holes, but just didn't hand in his card. But, we could find his scores on someone elses card. Presumably we'd enter those scores for him. But, is there an option to then DQ him in Club V1 for a no return. I don't run the competition side, so just wondering how club V1 would deal with the score in terms of handicap and in terms of competition result

(Unless there's been an update in the past few days) ClubV1 doesn't deal with unreturned competition scores correctly. The DQ options are not available and all holes are treated as net double-bogeys (when it should just record an unfulfilled intent). This means the score then needs to be deleted from WHS by the handicap secretary, with a penalty score added the following day if deemed appropriate.

In scenario 2, it's the same as above but instead of a penalty score being entered the following day, his actual scores should be entered on WHS as soon as they become available.

 

[Swango1980]

Why did the comp sec need to close the comp? All the returned scores would have gone to the WHS overnight for handicapping anyway. The comp only needs to be closed for result purposes and that could have been done the next day or even later.

For the benefit of members only. Many like to see how they have done in the competition, so we like to do this as early as we can. Closing the competition a day or so late is fine from an admin point of view, but frustrating for quite a few members. A few admitted a number of years ago they just stopped playing because they sometimes had to wait days for a competition to be closed, and it just annoyed them. Everyone is different I guess.

 

[Swango1980]

We had 4 cards not returned on Sat so they were simply DQ'd & 0's added at Comp close, 10pm...... emailed giving 24hrs to supply scores/reasons otherwise (on 1st occassion) score will be removed from WHS Platform..... 2nd occassion Penalty score administered. It transpired that 1 guy was 'fiddling' with App & entered Comp but never intended to play (not on BRS) others returned scores with apologies. We think & hope it will settle down. We have 4 of us in H/cap Team, 2 of us doing the detail stuff. Got to get your CTC's fine tuned.

Yeah, that is what we are trying to work on at the moment. Our problem is, we have been trying to educate golfers on the WHS basics for quite some time, and of course many still don't get any of it. We've had a new competition secretary, so he has been firing out competition conditions left right and centre (often to my frustration). So, members are being bombarded with information at the moment, and probably 80% of membership don't even play in comps or even have a handicap at our place.

 

[Swango1980]

(Unless there's been an update in the past few days) ClubV1 doesn't deal with unreturned competition scores correctly. The DQ options are not available and all holes are treated as net double-bogeys (when it should just record an unfulfilled intent). This means the score then needs to be deleted from WHS by the handicap secretary, with a penalty score added the following day if deemed appropriate.

In scenario 2, it's the same as above but instead of a penalty score being entered the following day, his actual scores should be entered on WHS as soon as they become available.

This is what I'm trying to get my head around.

Lets us say he never submits the card, so we never know any scores. Would the penalty score simply be a nett double bogey on every hole (which would mean Club V1 would get the same result if all zero's are entered)?

If his no return score is entered for the competition, then that "penalty" score will be sent to WHS. If he then sends his score after the competition is closed, would you reopen the comp on Club V1 and put in his correct score (if the DQ option was at least present) then close it. And, would that then correctly edit his score on WHS? Or, would you leave the comp alone in Club V1, go directly to WHS Portal, and edit his score directly in that? And, if you did that, presumably Club V1 would not then try and re-edit that because it tries and send his NR through again from the competition on the system.

Re-opening and closing competitions again is quite annoying, in that every time it is closed it sends notifications to members. For some reason, our Seniors close every competition about 3 or 4 times at least, so members are bombarded with notifications on a Wednesday/Thursday.

 

[wjemather]

This is what I'm trying to get my head around.

Lets us say he never submits the card, so we never know any scores. Would the penalty score simply be a nett double bogey on every hole (which would mean Club V1 would get the same result if all zero's are entered)?

If his no return score is entered for the competition, then that "penalty" score will be sent to WHS. If he then sends his score after the competition is closed, would you reopen the comp on Club V1 and put in his correct score (if the DQ option was at least present) then close it. And, would that then correctly edit his score on WHS? Or, would you leave the comp alone in Club V1, go directly to WHS Portal, and edit his score directly in that? And, if you did that, presumably Club V1 would not then try and re-edit that because it tries and send his NR through again from the competition on the system.

Re-opening and closing competitions again is quite annoying, in that every time it is closed it sends notifications to members. For some reason, our Seniors close every competition about 3 or 4 times at least, so members are bombarded with notifications on a Wednesday/Thursday.

CONGU's guidance on the RoH details what the penalty scores should be in any given scenario (G7.1b; p. 19).

Any alterations to scores (other than material corrections to the competition) should only be done on the WHS Platform. Likewise any score returned after the comp has been closed would be entered on the WHS platform.

 

[Swango1980]

CONGU's guidance on the RoH details what the penalty scores should be in any given scenario (G7.1b; p. 19).

Any alterations to scores (other than material corrections to the competition) should only be done on the WHS Platform. Likewise any score returned after the comp has been closed would be entered on the WHS platform.

Ok, that is great. So, in terms of the admin of it all (in Club V1), let us say there is a no return. Is it true that Club V1 at present is unable to have a no return option and apply the proper penalty score to WHS (if it did have that option, then it would make things so much easier). If it does not have that option, would the best be the following:

Competition closed without the player(s) who no returned at all
A list of those players sent to handicap secretary
Handicap secretary to go into WHS, and apply an appropriate penalty score (or, if player had been inlcuded in the closed competition, edit that score to ensure it is the proper penalty score)

I think that would help our comp sec to effectively set a deadline for scorecards, and whether they are returned or not, he can close the comp and not worry about chasing players (I can do the chasing for handicap)