World Handicap System (WHS)

[wjemather]

I've just received an email from my club advising that scores entered via the EG app will not be accepted ?. A local meeting of county bods highlighted a range of problems and it has scared them off for the time being.

A shame as the system so well laid out by @Canfordhacker looks so good. Hopefully it will just be temporary and they will look again as the season progresses.

Surely if the club simply required additional verification for such scores, it would effectively be no different from any of their current score submission requirements? And would certainly be less work for the poor handicap committee than searching for and deleting scores on a daily basis.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Is this a county wide ban on scoring via the EG App or just your club?

Just my club. The manager, proprietary club, has reacted yo the stories he heard today.

I got the impression that a good number are people trying out the app, create scorecard etc, effectively starting a round and then obviously not putting scores in because they are sat at home or work. I think someone on here fell foul of this and had to email his h/c sec to get it annulled.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Surely if the club simply required additional verification for such scores, it would effectively be no different from any of their current score submission requirements? And would certainly be less work for the poor handicap committee than searching for and deleting scores on a daily basis.

You are preaching to the converted, I agree. The person in charge is not that great with tech / apps etc and this fits his preconceptions.

Hopefully it will be reviewed in a few months. Another meeting, positive comments etc

 

[PJ87]

You are preaching to the converted, I agree. The person in charge is not that great with tech / apps etc and this fits his preconceptions.

Hopefully it will be reviewed in a few months. Another meeting, positive comments etc

Sorry but is that even in line with whs? Could a club do that?

Not up to a club to ban it

If it works and is accepted tough really

I emailed our handicap sec a copy of the card straight afters

If he takes it off I'll go to county and then to golf England .. the system is there to be used.

 

[PJ87]

Just my club. The manager, proprietary club, has reacted yo the stories he heard today.

I got the impression that a good number are people trying out the app, create scorecard etc, effectively starting a round and then obviously not putting scores in because they are sat at home or work. I think someone on here fell foul of this and had to email his h/c sec to get it annulled.

That was using my own clubs app ?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Just my club. The manager, proprietary club, has reacted yo the stories he heard today.

I got the impression that a good number are people trying out the app, create scorecard etc, effectively starting a round and then obviously not putting scores in because they are sat at home or work. I think someone on here fell foul of this and had to email his h/c sec to get it annulled.

It will end up being the first of many because there are so many loopholes and issues currently

They still haven’t sorted links from the ISV to Dotgolf

There appears to be a lot of running - hitting an issue and instead of sorting it out just bypassing and carry on running. It all needs to be done a lot more methodical to ensure every step is smooth and in place and all the relevant parties can see and understand each step. It potentially could get to the stage where clubs will just wipe their hands clean , turn off their apps for score entry outside comps and allow EG to maintain all handicaps.

Throughout a lot of this whole process EG ignoring clubs , counties and ISV’s - they got very lucky that lockdown happened when WHS started -and they haven’t used the break to sort out issues that many clubs are having.

Theoretically it’s all smooth apart from a few steps that need to be there - practically is a cluster mess.

 

[PJ87]

Other than tradition and change don't see why it would be a problem for clubs to allow EG do all the general play cards outside of comps

Their app is crackin and works.

Their will always be dishonest people

People could just sign cards saying someone hit this without that being right If they so wanted so don't see it as that much of a big deal

 

[PJ87]

Just my club. The manager, proprietary club, has reacted yo the stories he heard today.

I got the impression that a good number are people trying out the app, create scorecard etc, effectively starting a round and then obviously not putting scores in because they are sat at home or work. I think someone on here fell foul of this and had to email his h/c sec to get it annulled.

Won't this lose members to nomad when they get handicaps as they can use whs properly and not be held back?

 

[2blue]

Won't this lose members to nomad when they get handicaps as they can use whs properly and not be held back?

But they won't be welcomed to play in any Opens I've seen.

 

[PJ87]

But they won't be welcomed to play in any Opens I've seen.

If clubs start banning the use of whs properly then their clubs handicaps aren't the true reflection they could be

Clubs should be encouraging players to stick in as many cards as possible to get a true reflection

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Won't this lose members to nomad when they get handicaps as they can use whs properly and not be held back?

I think you are crediting people with more knowledge than they actually have. Most golfers are oblivious to new stuff that has and is happening.

 

[PJ87]

I think you are crediting people with more knowledge than they actually have. Most golfers are oblivious to new stuff that has and is happening.

Very true lol I hope my club doesn't follow suit

Example I'll give is today I did mine and got a 1.6 cut to my index

So going into the comp next time I'll play off 1 shot less

So surely it's a good thing

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Very true lol I hope my club doesn't follow suit

Example I'll give is today I did mine and got a 1.6 cut to my index

So going into the comp next time I'll play off 1 shot less

So surely it's a good thing

Agreed. I don't have an issue with it. It's more convenient than standing in a queue to enter scores on a screen, simpler than handing in a card from an away round and hoping something will come of it.

 

[PJ87]

Agreed. I don't have an issue with it. It's more convenient than standing in a queue to enter scores on a screen, simpler than handing in a card from an away round and hoping something will come of it.

Plus will psi under whs become any course making queue longer?

I prefer the old handicap

My index seems what my handicap should be ..

But the app system is a massive improvement

 

[sweaty sock]

Two of us used the England Golf App for our round yesterday to test it out. Below is the summary I sent to our group to help enlighten them. I am very impressed. EG Instagram account also saying there are GPS elements to the app such that you have to be close to the course for which you are registering a round.

• we used the “enter score” option in the middle at the bottom, before we teed off 9note you may have to update the app as this is a recent addition)
• create a scorecard- this asks you to select the club and tees (which means you can use it if you play away)
• Get a message at this point that if you confirm you will be expected to submit scores.
• app tells you your course handicap.
• me and Andy also added each other so we were essentially marking each others cards.
• We then left the app alone til after the round.
• When we got back to the clubhouse, over a pint, we agreed the scores as we usually would
• Smiley (our third playing partner) then created a round on the app just for him. He was told he couldn’t submit it for two hours (which is the pre-register intent element we have been discussing)
• Andy and I both entered our gross scores (for both of us) pretty much like you would on the screen in the clubhouse.
• Hit the submit button
• App asks you to physically sign the card on screen with your finger.
• App asks who is verifying the card. Given we had played together, it asked me if Andy was verifying my card. I said yes.
• Andy then got a message on the app to ask him to verify my score.
• Also received an email from the club Email address (ie not England golf) notifying that there is a score to be verified
• Go to the app and verify the score
• Andy holed out for an 8 on the 14th. We entered that score, and the final submission showed as 8 (7) to indicate a net double bogey had been calculated. It knocked a shot off his gross to reflect that too. Neat.
• Score is currently sitting there waiting for the overnight run that will add the playing condition calculation and calculate the differential and hence new handicap index.
• Smiley only entered his own score - it still asked him for a verifier. He picked me off his friend list and I followed the same process 2 hours later when the notification came through.
• This morning HI updated accordingly, following PCC (which was 0 in this case)

I'm terriffied by all of this. Its literally the end of handicapping in my view. Did Smileys card effect his handicap despite not pre registering?

 

[Old Skier]

There is a simple report that HC Sec have access to that shows the daily input of scores to the WHS DB whether submitted via ISV or EG App.

Its a shame that so many forum members are in clubs where they think that there members will be using the various apps for cheating. Whether the EG or the ISV app is used it can be checked. I appreciate that many of us are volunteers running this but the daily report is so simple that it should become obvious when members are abusing the system.

As to @Lord Tyrion club banning the use of the app, I presume they are going to check the DB daily as that is the only way they will know if anyone is breaking the ban.

 

[sweaty sock]

Erm, wasnt the example I quoted above cheating?

 

[Old Skier]

Erm, wasnt the example I quoted above cheating?

And it can be checked and card deleted.

 

[sweaty sock]

And it can be checked and card deleted.

We'll see I suppose...

 

[wjemather]

There is a simple report that HC Sec have access to that shows the daily input of scores to the WHS DB whether submitted via ISV or EG App.

Its a shame that so many forum members are in clubs where they think that there members will be using the various apps for cheating. Whether the EG or the ISV app is used it can be checked. I appreciate that many of us are volunteers running this but the daily report is so simple that it should become obvious when members are abusing the system.

As to @Lord Tyrion club banning the use of the app, I presume they are going to check the DB daily as that is the only way they will know if anyone is breaking the ban.

It would be very useful if the daily scores report contained additional details beyond the basics, e.g. HI, CH, CR, Slope, Stableford points, adjusted gross/net, etc.