World Handicap System - FAQ’s

[Deleted member 16999]

Seen this and thought it maybe of interest, released this month,

https://www.englandgolf.org/shared/get-file.ashx?id=32999&itemtype=document

 

[Foxholer]

Thanks for posting it!

 

[Orikoru]

Cheers for that, interesting reading. I don't really like the sound of it, but I think it's just annoying for me having only been a club member for 19 months and just got used to how it works that they're then going to change it all. I'll just have to get my hcap as low as possible before I no longer understand how to. :lol:

 

[Foxholer]

Cheers for that, interesting reading. I don't really like the sound of it, but I think it's just annoying for me having only been a club member for 19 months and just got used to how it works that they're then going to change it all. I'll just have to get my hcap as low as possible before I no longer understand how to. :lol:

Just remember the main concept - best 8 from last 20

Having observed this (or very near) system in several other countries, it's pretty simple - especially if you play most of your golf at 1 club.

 

[Orikoru]

Just remember the main concept - best 8 from last 20

Having observed this (or very near) system in several other countries, it's pretty simple - especially if you play most of your golf at 1 club.

Simple I'm sure, but will still take some getting used to. Going out and having a nightmare round of 110 would no longer mean an automatic 0.1 by the looks of it.

And I'm probably understanding it wrong, but it seems like you could actually play above your handicap and still get cut - for example if your round was 5 over your playing handicap, but still better than your 8th best recent round?? Which is a bit mad. Again, I've probably got it wrong though. Sounds wrong. lol

 

[upsidedown]

Simple I'm sure, but will still take some getting used to. Going out and having a nightmare round of 110 would no longer mean an automatic 0.1 by the looks of it.

And I'm probably understanding it wrong, but it seems like you could actually play above your handicap and still get cut - for example if your round was 5 over your playing handicap, but still better than your 8th best recent round?? Which is a bit mad. Again, I've probably got it wrong though. Sounds wrong. lol

Having played under a similar system in NZ I'd say that was very unlikely to happen.

 

[Orikoru]

Having played under a similar system in NZ I'd say that was very unlikely to happen.

It depends how often you enter tournaments surely? I'll take my scores as an example, it may or may not work, I don't know.
My best 8 gross scores of my last 20 competition rounds are, from oldest to latest: 92, 88, 92, 94, 94, 95, 87, 84.

So the average is 90.75. My handicap is 20 and the par is 68. I could shoot 91, which would be 3 over my handicap, but that bring the 'best 8 rounds' average down to 90.25. I don't know how they will do the working, rounding up/down etc, but in theory it seems possible to me that you could shoot over handicap and get cut. Particularly if someone's best eight scores had more variance than mine, obviously.

Edit: Perhaps this will less and less possible over time as things even out.

 

[upsidedown]

I think you are right that in time the more scores will even it out, as in your example your best 8 include 3 above your handicap so as time progress they will be replaced with scores more in tune with the handicap.You may also find that 90.75 and 90.25 fall into the same bracket for the index, from memory the brackets dont change at .5.

 

[patricks148]

It depends how often you enter tournaments surely? I'll take my scores as an example, it may or may not work, I don't know.
My best 8 gross scores of my last 20 competition rounds are, from oldest to latest: 92, 88, 92, 94, 94, 95, 87, 84.

So the average is 90.75. My handicap is 20 and the par is 68. I could shoot 91, which would be 3 over my handicap, but that bring the 'best 8 rounds' average down to 90.25. I don't know how they will do the working, rounding up/down etc, but in theory it seems possible to me that you could shoot over handicap and get cut. Particularly if someone's best eight scores had more variance than mine, obviously.

Edit: Perhaps this will less and less possible over time as things even out.

par isn't relevant your handicap is off the CSS/SSS, when it changes it will be off the slope

 

[Grant85]

Interesting.

By my reckoning, if your handicap was bang on (e.g. 10.0) at a SSS of 70 you would need to shoot 5 shots under your handicap to move down a stroke.

 

[Foxholer]

It depends how often you enter tournaments surely? I'll take my scores as an example, it may or may not work, I don't know.
My best 8 gross scores of my last 20 competition rounds are, from oldest to latest: 92, 88, 92, 94, 94, 95, 87, 84.

So the average is 90.75. My handicap is 20 and the par is 68. I could shoot 91, which would be 3 over my handicap, but that bring the 'best 8 rounds' average down to 90.25. I don't know how they will do the working, rounding up/down etc, but in theory it seems possible to me that you could shoot over handicap and get cut. Particularly if someone's best eight scores had more variance than mine, obviously.

Edit: Perhaps this will less and less possible over time as things even out.

Yes, that can indeed happen!

But indeed, likely to happen less the more rounds that are recorded!

 

[Orikoru]

par isn't relevant your handicap is off the CSS/SSS, when it changes it will be off the slope

I know that but it wasn't relevant to the point I was trying to make, that you can play over your handicap and still get a cut.

 

[Orikoru]

Yes, that can indeed happen!

But indeed, likely to happen less the more rounds that are recorded!

I haven't done the working but it also seems like someone who was rapidly improving would take longer to get their handicap down in the new system. The way it is now, someone can have a blinding round and get cut 2 or 3 shots immediately. But with the new system it would simply lower their average score and maybe they'd only go down one shot at that time.

Dunno if that's a good or bad thing really, just thinking aloud. It would stop people getting stuck on handicaps that are too low for them, based on one amazing round. But also could enable people to play off higher handicaps for longer.

Will be a steep learning curve anyway!

 

[duncan mackie]

I haven't done the working but it also seems like someone who was rapidly improving would take longer to get their handicap down in the new system. The way it is now, someone can have a blinding round and get cut 2 or 3 shots immediately. But with the new system it would simply lower their average score and maybe they'd only go down one shot at that time.

Dunno if that's a good or bad thing really, just thinking aloud. It would stop people getting stuck on handicaps that are too low for them, based on one amazing round. But also could enable people to play off higher handicaps for longer.

Will be a steep learning curve anyway!

The underlying numbers pretty closely reflect the current CONGU algorithm. In pure terms a rapidly improving, or failing, golfer will also move at about the same speed under either if you take into account ESR and the extra shot for constant failure to play to handicap. In practice there are also additional control factors that will further smooth things.

I really don't see much difference coming out of it - CONGU has 're written the system to reflect it's system beautifully. The one bit that people will find a touch strange at first is in playing from a different handicap when playing from different tees on their own course...but in underlying terms nothing is different.

 

[IanG]

They say 'Annual Review' will still happen - I wonder how they will implement any adjustments needed as a result of the AR given the new best 8 from 20 calculation.

 

[Aussie Swinger]

I have played on the WHS system for the last year since moving to Australia. In my opinion, it is a far superior system in that it can adjust itself far quicker to reflect your form and ability. I have been going through a really poor spell and quickly regained 2 shots above my initial 5 Handicap. I’m now coming out the other side, playing better, but not getting the ridiculous cut to handicap based on one card. I can highly recommend looking at the golf Australia website on handicapping as it’s exactly what’s coming to the Uk, and breaks it down very well. One thing I’ve not seen mentioned that I think will happen in the Uk is that your best aggregate 8 scores will be multiplied by 0.93 to give you you actual playing handicap, and also you can not go up by more than 5 Handicap in anyone calendar year. As I said, I think it’s fairer, but check the website for yourself for the in depth breakdown.

 

[Jamesbrown]

Just looking forward to my Friday sessions counting towards handicap and any other knock I’ll have. Supplementals cost me £5.

 

[Imurg]

Just looking forward to my Friday sessions counting towards handicap and any other knock I’ll have. Supplementals cost me £5.

Ours cost a quid and I'm still waiting for mine to be processed from 3 weeks back....!!!!

 

[Grant85]

I still don't see the incentive or need to include supplemental rounds.

They are saying it's still very much a personal choice if you delcare a round as a counter before you go out. In reality, very few people will do this because if you have a good round, you get cut and have no chance of winning a prize.

There will still be clear opportunity for people to only play 2 or 3 medals a year to keep their handicap going. Albeit, if an 18 handicapper suddenly shoots 100 in a medal then he will go up more than 0.1.

Not that that's a massive problem, as has been discussed.

Also - for new players - I think they would change their handicap much quicker.
Lets say they have played their 3 rounds to get started and are in at 20.

Obviously their next medal, their score will count as 25% of all available info, so potential that they would come down a bit quicker than under the 0.4 down / 0.1 up system.

 

[patricks148]

does the US system still take every round into account or are they getting the same as us?

by the looks of it nothing is going to change much except how its calculated. My understanding was it was brought in to allow our Elite players get lower handicaps to match the US as some were struggling to get in though the ballot in many elite comps