WHS - Handicap Allowances Question

[Deleted member 25172]

I have a HI of 10.0. The Course Rating chart gives me 12 off our whites and 11 off yellows. As I understand it , I’ll play a Comp Medal at 95% of 12, ie 11.4 rounded down to 11. I’ll also play a Comp Stableford off yellows at 95% of 11, ie 10.45 rounded down to 10. I think I’m correct - am I?

i know the software will provide all this in the background when we book on for a comp, but I can see problems when it’s a ‘friendly’ Stableford non- comp. Working to two decimal places is novel.

I have just been invited to a WHS webinar and posted essentially the same question there.

We don’t have any printed cards with our handicaps for our comps, so I can see a lot of people being DQ’d in our stableford comps who just checks their handicap index, find the playing handicap and off they go without taking into account the 95% allowance and then at the end of the round have more points on the card than what they should have as they’ve played under the assumption that they have one more “shot hole” than they actually do.

Or I have completely misunderstood this whole thing.

 

[Swango1980]

I have just been invited to a WHS webinar and posted essentially the same question there.

We don’t have any printed cards with our handicaps for our comps, so I can see a lot of people being DQ’d in our stableford comps who just checks their handicap index, find the playing handicap and off they go without taking into account the 95% allowance and then at the end of the round have more points on the card than what they should have as they’ve played under the assumption that they have one more “shot hole” than they actually do.

Or I have completely misunderstood this whole thing.

It is their COURSE handicap that must be correct on the card to comply with the rules of golf. The software will ultimately take care of the Playing handicap.

It is an interesting one. If ever there were a scenario where we have to do things manually, and have no software to rely on, a player may well forget to calculate the 95% playing handicap. They'd simply use their course handicap, ultimately giving themselves too many shots for that competition. Yet, they cannot be disqualified, and it would be to to competition organisers to spot that error.

Thank goodness for technology

 

[jim8flog]

I have just been invited to a WHS webinar and posted essentially the same question there.

We don’t have any printed cards with our handicaps for our comps, so I can see a lot of people being DQ’d in our stableford comps who just checks their handicap index, find the playing handicap and off they go without taking into account the 95% allowance and then at the end of the round have more points on the card than what they should have as they’ve played under the assumption that they have one more “shot hole” than they actually do.

Or I have completely misunderstood this whole thing.

A player must have their Course Handicap on the card if it is not it is a DQ (R&A Rule 3.3 for a wrong CH)

Easy to do they just get their HI and check the course slope tables.

If they get the Playing Handicap calculation wrong there is no penalty and the committee just adjusts the cards (which would be done automatically by a computer entry system). A far as scoring is concerned the players only responsibility is to ensure the correct gross core is recorded on the card.

 

[doublebogey7]

I have just been invited to a WHS webinar and posted essentially the same question there.

We don’t have any printed cards with our handicaps for our comps, so I can see a lot of people being DQ’d in our stableford comps who just checks their handicap index, find the playing handicap and off they go without taking into account the 95% allowance and then at the end of the round have more points on the card than what they should have as they’ve played under the assumption that they have one more “shot hole” than they actually do.

Or I have completely misunderstood this whole thing.

I think you have mixed up Playing Handicap with Course Handicap, apologies if I have misunderstood. The Course Handicap is the one you get from the conversion table at your club, the Playing Handicap is equavalent to the current shots received and for singles stableford is derived by multiplying the Course Handicap by 95%. The Rules of Golf only requires the Course Handicap to be noted on the card. So no DQ for only putting the handicap from the conversion table on the card, and no problem with number of points being incorrect as players are only required to note their gross scores on the card and not the stableford points or net scores.

 

[Deleted member 25172]

Thanks for the replies @Swango1980 amd @jim8flog here I’ve been thinking that the right side column of the slope chart was the PLAYING handicap all along. My bad!

Edit: and thanks also to @doublebogey7

Yep, just me mixing the two together all along!

 

[IanM]

Ooh, why not just have the tables include playing handicap? Or why design a processwith lots of different things called handicap.

Blazers know best eh?

 

[rulefan]

Ooh, why not just have the tables include playing handicap? Or why design a processwith lots of different things called handicap.

Blazers know best eh?

As the Playing Handicap varies with the format being played (eg 4 Ball 85%, Match play 100%), how big a board would be needed?
Remember, CONGU has format allowances at the moment. So nothing new.

 

[IanM]

Remember, CONGU has format allowances at the moment. So nothing new.

Completely new.

I don't currently have to use look up tables to find out a load of stuff, before I work out 90%/75% of a number I knew before I got out of bed that morning!!

And, to the other point. If you have a table with the current number of rows, two more won't hurt.

 

[jim8flog]

Completely new.

I don't currently have to use look up tables to find out a load of stuff, before I work out 90%/75% of a number I knew before I got out of bed that morning!!

And, to the other point. If you have a table with the current number of rows, two more won't hurt.

Two more!!

Format of
Play
Type of Round Recommended Handicap Allowance
Stroke play
Individual 95%
Individual Stableford 95%
Individual Par/Bogey 95%
Individual Maximum Score 95%
Four-Ball 85%
Four-Ball Stableford 85%
Four-Ball Par/Bogey 90%
Match Play
Individual 100%
Four-Ball 90%
Other
Foursomes 50% of combined team handicap
Greensomes
60% low handicap + 40% high
handicap
Pinehurst/Chapman
60% low handicap + 40% high
handicap
Best 1 of 4 stroke play 75%
Best 2 of 4 stroke play 85%
Best 3 of 4 stroke play 100%
All 4 of 4 stroke play 100%
Scramble (4 players)
25%/20%/15%/10%
from lowest to highest handicap
Scramble (2 players) 35% low/15% high
Total score of 2 match
play
100%
Best 1 of 4 Par/Bogey 75%
Best 2 of 4 Par/Bogey 80%
Best 3 of 4 Par/Bogey 90%
4 of 4 Par/Bogey 100

 

[IanM]

Ok...point taken about that bit? although most of those are not that common

But you see what I mean about the other bit!

 

[Swango1980]

Completely new.

I don't currently have to use look up tables to find out a load of stuff, before I work out 90%/75% of a number I knew before I got out of bed that morning!!

And, to the other point. If you have a table with the current number of rows, two more won't hurt.

The tables are quite large already. There are quite a few playing allowance differences between formats of play.

To be honest, I was explaining to a Committee member and a long standing member about handicap allowances. They got there in the end, I think. But one didn't even know about the 95% allieance for singles stroke play. The other got confused, thinking stroke play was medal and it would be 100% for Stableford. A 3rd guy just sat and listened, I at end of it all just said he would do ad he told.

I'd say most people on this forum are pretty well educated, and have a desire to learn, hence being here. But, it really is going to he "fun" to see the reaction when all golfers start using WHS. Previously, remembering 1 handicap was all that was required. Most complex issue was remembering and applying 90% difference if they happened to he playing in fourball matchplay (and WHS even changes the order of that calculation).

The winter will bring a steep learning curve. Sadly, our members don't even have access to WHS because Club V1 haven't sent through their email addresses

 

[jim8flog]

Ok...point taken about that bit? although most of those are not that common

But you see what I mean about the other bit!

I would also add that our course chart is already 12 columns wide due to all the tee variations. Add the information you want and................

 

[rulefan]

Completely new.

I don't currently have to use look up tables to find out a load of stuff, before I work out 90%/75% of a number I knew before I got out of bed that morning!!

And, to the other point. If you have a table with the current number of rows, two more won't hurt.

Two more columns for each set of gender based tees. The won't be room on the clubhouse wall for the board

 

[IanM]

Yep, as any comms manager will tell you... if you can’t get it on one page, you’ve messed up. If only they’d bothered to get feedback from proper golfers eh?

 

[rulie]

Yep, as any comms manager will tell you... if you can’t get it on one page, you’ve messed up. If only they’d bothered to get feedback from proper golfers eh?

And, in your opinion, what are "proper golfers"?

 

[IanM]

And, in your opinion, what are "proper golfers"?

A diverse group of golfers, to test the usability of the output. Simple as that, was this done? Doesn’t look like it, from all the commentary on here. Not a committee of folk who are usually on committees!

Six months from now golfers will just carry on playing knowing enough to get by and leave the minutia to those who are so disposed....

 

[rosecott]

When we play fourball matchplay it takes about 2 seconds each player to work out 90%, ie deduct 10% and round accordingly... "
16 - 1.6 = 14.4, 14 shots Mick"

95% will take 2 seconds in whatever format that applies to
"16, 10% is 1.6, 5% is 0.8, 15.2 so you get 15 Mick"

We'll go back to having a little card like we used to with 3/4, 7/8 etc..

 

[IanM]

Spookily my email just arrived from my club to say Welsh Portal ready and I’ve signed on.

First thought? A simple piece of code would have linked my handicap index to the data for the tees at my home club, so I could see my course handicap on all on the same page.

Unless it’s elsewhere and I just haven’t spotted it.

If I hadn’t read all the noise on here I’d would have given it a second thought!

 

[rulefan]

Spookily my email just arrived from my club to say Welsh Portal ready and I’ve signed on.

First thought? A simple piece of code would have linked my handicap index to the data for the tees at my home club, so I could see my course handicap on all on the same page.

Unless it’s elsewhere and I just haven’t spotted it.

If I hadn’t read all the noise on here I’d would have given it a second thought!

Once you have looked at the board at your club, how often would you need to check again?
But when you play a comp your ISV's PSI will tell you.

 

[rulefan]

We'll go back to having a little card like we used to with 3/4, 7/8 etc..

We used to have it on the back of the scorecard