WHS doesn't work

[Swango1980]

No I am saying the playing conditions should be captured.. to ignore them is incorrect, especially given the amount of statistical gymnastics everyone is prepared to do in whs .. the 8 best of your past 20 rounds just measured your apparent consistency but that to is incorrect because it doesn’t account for conditions..
But never mind it’s not worth arguing over, it was all set up in good faith I am sure and I appreciate you taking the time to respond and I don’t want to cause any ill feelings.
I will content myself with the thought all our scratchers and single digit golfers are chompers

I suspect you are not understanding handicapping?

Look at virtually every result, and you'll see it is pretty common nett par is not broken by many people in the field. Especially since the changes in April, where Course Handicaps have been adjusted by CR-Par (at courses where CR is less than par).

The results you describe would suggest the course didn't play more difficult than one would expect. If scores were worse than they would be normally, that is when PCC should kick in and account for those difficult conditions

 

[harpo_72]

I suspect you are not understanding handicapping?

Look at virtually every result, and you'll see it is pretty common nett par is not broken by many people in the field. Especially since the changes in April, where Course Handicaps have been adjusted by CR-Par (at courses where CR is less than par).

The results you describe would suggest the course didn't play more difficult than one would expect. If scores were worse than they would be normally, that is when PCC should kick in and account for those difficult conditions

PCC is never used suggesting it’s off or not initiated

 

[Voyager EMH]

Taking account of the conditions on a day can not be done practically. Weather conditions might be dreadful for those playing in the morning, but much easier going in the afternoon.
Twas ever thus. We just have to accept the discrepancy.
Although it is called "PCC" it has little or nothing to do with playing conditions of weather and course set-up, merely the scores returned for the day.

My course is Par 70, CR 70.8 and SR 132.

My HI of 4.3 represents playing gross 5.8 shots over par.
6 over par gives me a SD of 4.5 which is close to my HI.

The average of all my 20 scores gives me SD of 7.5 which represents 9.6 shots over par.
So a nett score of 3 or 4 over par is average for me. Gross 79 or 80 on my par 70 course is average for me with a HI of 4.3.

I expect to see around 18% to 22% of a field playing to or below nett par. I expect to see a median of about nett 4 over par on a normal day.
Half the field should likely be nett 4 over par or higher.

15 out of 112 breaking nett par seems fairly normal to me.
If there were another 7 who played to nett par exactly then that would represent 22/112 or 19.6% of the field playing to or below their handicap.

 

[wjemather]

PCC is never used suggesting it’s off or not initiated

This isn't true. PCC is active and is triggered. Easily verified if you let me know where you play.

 

[rulefan]

PCC is never used suggesting it’s off or not initiated

PCC is always 'on'. It is part of the Stroke Differential calculation to provide your handicap index. See Rule 5.6

Rule 5.6 Clarifications:
5.6/1 – Procedure for Performing Playing Conditions Calculation
The playing conditions calculation (PCC) is an automatic calculation and can be
summarized as follows:
1. The expected score is calculated for each eligible player.
2. The expected standard deviation of Score Differentials at the golf course is
calculated, incorporating all applicable Slope Ratings.
3. The number of players who scored better or worse than expected on the
day is established.
4. The proportion of players who submitted a score equal to, better than or
worse than their expected scoring range is used to determine whether a
PCC adjustment is required.
5. If an adjustment is required, a determination is made about how much
harder or easier the golf course played that day.
6. Based on these calculations, the final PCC adjustment required for play on
that day is determined.
7. A PCC adjustment is applied as a whole number.

 

[Swango1980]

PCC is never used suggesting it’s off or not initiated

But, in the competition you mention, what makes you think PCC should not have been zero?

If it was a day you felt weather and course set up was normal, what would you expect scores to be generally? How many do you think would shoot a score better than handicap?

 

[Crow]

I had to smile at the comments on this YouTube video from HDID called "Why your handicap is changing in 2024... (simple breakdown)".

It has to be assumed that these are average golfers who just watch a bit of YouTube rather than the golf obsessed who frequent the GM forum.

 

[Swango1980]

I had to smile at the comments on this YouTube video from HDID called "Why your handicap is changing in 2024... (simple breakdown)".

It has to be assumed that these are average golfers who just watch a bit of YouTube rather than the golf obsessed who frequent the GM forum.

Why was he walking around a golf course with a bag? Was this necessary? Was it some sort of "evidence" he is a golfer so knows what he is talking about?

In fairness, I only watched the first 10 seconds, so maybe it is a spoof?

 

[rulefan]

Haitch Dee Aye Dee

 

[Backache]

Why was he walking around a golf course with a bag? Was this necessary? Was it some sort of "evidence" he is a golfer so knows what he is talking about?

In fairness, I only watched the first 10 seconds, so maybe it is a spoof?

He did hit a few shots ,The get up and hair was retro chic 70's . Not sure that he would be allowed on all courses wearing jeans though.

 

[Slab]

I had to smile at the comments on this YouTube video from HDID called "Why your handicap is changing in 2024... (simple breakdown)".

It has to be assumed that these are average golfers who just watch a bit of YouTube rather than the golf obsessed who frequent the GM forum.

Other than using some relative of that bloke who did Men behaving Badly as the presenter, that was actually informative (well the last 20 seconds was the best bit, they should've led with that)

 

[Voyager EMH]

Why was he walking around a golf course with a bag? Was this necessary? Was it some sort of "evidence" he is a golfer so knows what he is talking about?

In fairness, I only watched the first 10 seconds, so maybe it is a spoof?

He is a golfer and has been working for howdidido for a few years.
Here is is getting a Ping fitting three years ago.

 

[rulefan]

He did hit a few shots ,The get up and hair was retro chic 70's . Not sure that he would be allowed on all courses wearing jeans though.

Especially at Hoylake

 

[clubchamp98]

Had a very long email today from the hcap sec.

He stated he has been “inundated with complaints about caps being wrong.”

Email read like a A level maths paper.
No wonder golfers just don’t engage with this it’s far to complicated.

Heard lots of “ this is crap the old system was better”

 

[IanM]

Email read like a A level maths paper.

Yep, fix poor comms with equally poor comms!

 

[Deleted member 29109]

WHS has definitely ruined golf. Bloody high handicappers shooting silly low net scores stealing our prize money. How am I supposed to compete with this

I’m not entertaining any more comps.

Am I doing this right?




Did no one ever shoot a low score before WHS?

 

[wjemather]

Had a very long email today from the hcap sec.

He stated he has been “inundated with complaints about caps being wrong.”

Email read like a A level maths paper.
No wonder golfers just don’t engage with this it’s far to complicated.

Heard lots of “ this is crap the old system was better”

He should have been inundated with complaints about his inability to communicate effectively and educate the membership.

Excessive technical detail is counterproductive. General comms should be limited to a few very simple essential messages, with the detail available elsewhere for those who want to know more.

 

[wjemather]

Yep, fix poor comms with equally poor comms!

Calling it "poor" is being very generous.

 

[jim8flog]

WHS has definitely ruined golf. Bloody high handicappers shooting silly low net scores stealing our prize money. How am I supposed to compete with this

I’m not entertaining any more comps.

Am I doing this right?


View attachment 53183

Did no one ever shoot a low score before WHS?

I presume they are winning scores in comps - only one really good one in there, the first.

If you are comparing winning scores pre 54 handicaps (54 is a not a WHS thing) with current try where I play.

Under the UHS I once played in a Saturday comp where handicaps were limited to 24
wining score was a nett 58 there were two 59s one 60 and I came in with a nett 61 off 16 handicap.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

I presume they are winning scores in comps - only one really good one in there, the first.

If you are comparing winning scores pre 54 handicaps (54 is a not a WHS thing) with current try where I play.

Under the UHS I once played in a Saturday comp where handicaps were limited to 24
wining score was a nett 58 there were two 59s one 60 and I came in with a nett 61 off 16 handicap.

It’s the scoreboard from our Monthly medal on Sunday.

There would be outrage if someone off 54 beat the field by 7 shots. And I know it’s not a WHS thing, but many of the moaners on here don’t seem to understand that.

We typically don’t see scores like this, but someone had the round of their life.