D
Deleted member 1147
Guest
I was only telling you where that info was disseminated.
WHS doesn't work
- Thread starter Captain_Black.
- Start date
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Yeah of course he has. I was just saying that next time he could arrest the slump, play brilliantly, put in a card of 77 and he'll still be going up anyway.
No I don't think he could give a blind toss, he's given up all hope of ever playing well again sadly. I think I just don't like the situation that this system sometimes puts you in, that you feel like you need to beat that one round from 20 rounds ago. Obviously it wasn't designed to make you feel that way, but that's how it ends up feeling in reality. Whereas in the old system that good old round would have seen him cut a few shots at the time and then forgotten about really.
Bdill93
Undisputed King of FOMO
https://www.howdidido.com/My/Result?sectionId=4631&compNumber=102353
https://www.howdidido.com/My/Result?sectionId=4631&compNumber=102351
https://www.howdidido.com/My/Result?sectionId=4631&compNumber=102280
Someone tell me WHS is not broken at my club after seeing results like these almost weekly
https://www.howdidido.com/My/Result?sectionId=4631&compNumber=102351
https://www.howdidido.com/My/Result?sectionId=4631&compNumber=102280
Someone tell me WHS is not broken at my club after seeing results like these almost weekly
upsidedown
Tour Winner
Could you post the comparable results pre WHS .https://www.howdidido.com/My/Result?sectionId=4631&compNumber=102353
https://www.howdidido.com/My/Result?sectionId=4631&compNumber=102351
https://www.howdidido.com/My/Result?sectionId=4631&compNumber=102280
Someone tell me WHS is not broken at my club after seeing results like these almost weekly
Bdill93
Undisputed King of FOMO
Gone back to 2019 -
https://www.howdidido.com/My/Result?sectionId=4631&compNumber=101533
https://www.howdidido.com/My/Result?sectionId=4631&compNumber=101534
https://www.howdidido.com/My/Result?sectionId=4631&compNumber=101527
https://www.howdidido.com/My/Result?sectionId=4631&compNumber=101490
https://www.howdidido.com/My/Result?sectionId=4631&compNumber=101481
A hodge podge of results there but more guys sub 20 towards the top of the tables.
It's interesting that some clubs are having this problem, others are not. Mine isn't for example but I see the problem at yours. The question is why is it happening at your place and not at mine? I'm not being smart by the way, I don't have the answer.https://www.howdidido.com/My/Result?sectionId=4631&compNumber=102353
https://www.howdidido.com/My/Result?sectionId=4631&compNumber=102351
https://www.howdidido.com/My/Result?sectionId=4631&compNumber=102280
Someone tell me WHS is not broken at my club after seeing results like these almost weekly
Has your club looked at these results, looked at the number of cards put in by the people with exceptional scores, are they new starters and so improving etc? There may be a correlation between them that your club can react to. The system is working at many clubs so it suggests that something within your club needs a tweak but without delving into the stats it is hard to know what that is.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Might be slope/course rating related? If the slope is too high then higher handicappers could be getting too many shots week in week out.
Bdill93
Undisputed King of FOMO
I think its coming down to a few things:
1)
Old boys play more golf. 3 comps a week at our place if they fancy it. Their handicaps are far more accurate to current ability as they simply play and submit more cards.
I on the other hand am lucky to submit a card a week. I play 9 holes by myself some evenings and while some Sunday roll ups go in for handicap, not all of them do. I have scores still in my best 20 from over a year ago - my handicap has dropped 6 shots in 12 months and itll be ages till that goes back up (it wont over winter)
2)
20ish handicappers seem to be winning the most - no surprise to me - our track isn't the hardest, anyone half decent can break 90 - if you're off 22 and have a semi average 15 over, that's a gross 64 at our place - more than possible for a low 20's guy. If the track was longer, the older guys would suffer more.
3)
One great round doesn't cut you as much as it used to. All these exceptional rounds now do is amend someone's handicap by a shot or two. Before, if you played well under you'd be in for a much bigger cut from the mid 20's and it would take time to go back up. I witnessed a 22 handicapper shoot 51 points the other week. He played off 13 a year ago. Made me feel sick.
Banchory Buddha
Well-known member
It certainly shouldn't be, if you have a H'cap Sec who is paying attention.
What I've seen at both my clubs is that the handicaps have settled down, last year there were a swathe of stupid scoring, suggesting that the conversions down behind the scenes had been to aggressive in cutting low and raising high handicaps. However that's virtually gone this season, and winners are now spread across the field.
Banchory Buddha
Well-known member
Well that paints a rather different picture. You basically have no single figure handicaps playing, how are they going to win anything if they don't play?https://www.howdidido.com/My/Result?sectionId=4631&compNumber=102353
https://www.howdidido.com/My/Result?sectionId=4631&compNumber=102351
https://www.howdidido.com/My/Result?sectionId=4631&compNumber=102280
Someone tell me WHS is not broken at my club after seeing results like these almost weekly
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
Like I said.. it's about the scoring.
SILH was wondering why, on a nice day, PCC kicked in...
Do you think having a minimum number of cards, within the last 12 months, before being able to win a comp would help at your place?
Course difficulty is not something I had really thought of but that makes sense. My place is quite difficulty for an average golfer, and boy am I average
, and so the chances of someone burning it up are not high. You can have a good day and touch 40 points, winning scores at ours are around 37-41 points out of a field of around 150, but the idea of someone going off the whites and getting 50 is a real no go. On an easier course people can have a flier if things click.Tricky how that one gets resolved for you. Maybe it needs to get raised at a county secs meeting and they may get ideas from other clubs who have faced similar problems.
Backsticks
Assistant Pro
The chances of burning up a difficult course, in a handicapped score, is the same as an easy course. CR and Slope level this.
That is not the reason for the rogue clubs.
In our club, I would say there has been no influence on winning scores profile, nor th handicaps profile of those winning post whs.
Though I guess, there must be to a small degree. We certainly experienced the 5 or below handicaps reducing as a group by a shot or two. 10-20 hcs, no change. 20+, hard to tell if they changed, but certainly none skyrocketed, or no crazy scores coming in from that range of hcs.
I suspect the flaw may be in new hcs, especially high ones, being higher than the old system would ever have given them. Rather than rising hcs. The caps limit that. Nobody goes from 20 to 30 in 2 months and then posts 50 points. It just cant happen.
That is not the reason for the rogue clubs.
In our club, I would say there has been no influence on winning scores profile, nor th handicaps profile of those winning post whs.
Though I guess, there must be to a small degree. We certainly experienced the 5 or below handicaps reducing as a group by a shot or two. 10-20 hcs, no change. 20+, hard to tell if they changed, but certainly none skyrocketed, or no crazy scores coming in from that range of hcs.
I suspect the flaw may be in new hcs, especially high ones, being higher than the old system would ever have given them. Rather than rising hcs. The caps limit that. Nobody goes from 20 to 30 in 2 months and then posts 50 points. It just cant happen.
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Bdill93
Undisputed King of FOMO
Well that paints a rather different picture. You basically have no single figure handicaps playing, how are they going to win anything if they don't play?
We have a very low number of single guys yeah - they tend to move on to better clubs locally when they get to a certain level. Id say there's about 8 regular sub 10 players.
Current issue though is that you don't even stand much of a chance off sub 15/14.
Id have to beat my best gross score ever, by about 3 shots, just to be in with a shout - and even then someone will most likely go lower.
Bdill93
Undisputed King of FOMO
See I think this is where our biggest issue is, were rated as if its a tough track - or at least tougher than it is. I think players should play off their index's pretty much, and not gain shots at our place - but the guys around 20 are gaining 2!
Just to double down here too - there's no way I'm actually a 12 index player either - my golf doesn't translate well to other courses - so the rating is an issue in my opinion.
Backsticks
Assistant Pro
Rating might be part of it. And might be out a shot, or 2, for a 20 hc. But that still would not explain scores of 50+, or <60. They are 6 or 8 shots wrong at least.
rulefan
Tour Winner
How many shots for one good round?
Orikoru
Tour Winner
I can't remember, it was over two years ago.
sweaty sock
Hacker
Well because form is so sensitive, if i look at my past 20 scores there are batches that last for months where i play 5 or 6 shots worse than my 'ego' then out of nowhere im back on form with 3 or 4 scores better than my ego'
rulefan
Tour Winner
It would be interesting if posters complaining about high cappers winning would also show the CONGU handicap the player had before conversion. In correspondence with EG I am told that virtually all conversions were within one (or two at most). There were of course some exceptions. Slope of course will have had an effect on high cappers playing handicap.
