WHS doesn't work

[doublebogey7]

54 is the maximum Handicap Index not the maximum Course Handicap

And 56 is neither.

 

[GG26]

The whole crux of the issue after reading virtually all the replies to this thread are.

1. England Golf have messed up big time by allowing handicaps that are way too high in the name of inclusivity that in reality are anything but.

2. England Golf have introduced a flawed handicap system which is exacerbating the situation & have basically left it to the clubs to try & mitigate the problem with sticking plaster solutions like divisions & H/C restrictions on certain events.

3. When any new system is introduced there are bound to be teething problem, England Golf have not realised their errors or done anything to adjust the system to make it fairer for all.

4. What is blatantly obvious is the need for England Golf to revisit this & to swallow their pride & admit that the system needs tweeking.
They need to reduce the maximum handicap limit back to somewhere near the previous limit or even slightly below & to reduce the 95% singles & 85% team allowances in stages until it's deemed to produce a level playing field for all handicaps.
That in my opinion would certainly go a long way to solving the current ridiculous situation that we are now in.

I disagree and I like the current system. It reads like you won’t be happy until there is a system that’s heavily weighted in your favour.

Pre-WHS I played individual comps at my course off of 19. When WHS came in I played in comps for the first several months getting 19 shots. No change at all.

Most of our comps are run in four divisions and were pre-WHS. That works fine for the prizes. There will be one overall winner for board comps (to get on the board the max handicap is 28).

It get that single figure golfers will struggle to beat a high handicapper having his day on the sun, but that was the case before WHS came in.

 

[rulefan]

After introductions the first questions any potential new member to our club is asked is 'Have you ever played before?' 'Where?' 'When?'
Our handicap chair is advised of all new members and monitors them from their 1st posted score. An especially close eye is kept on 'new' golfers and those with only a few scores in their record.
We also set a minimum no of scores in this and last year for winning prizes (including qualifying for subsequent KO rounds).

 

[Captain_Black.]

I disagree and I like the current system. It reads like you won’t be happy until there is a system that’s heavily weighted in your

I disagree and I like the current system. It reads like you won’t be happy until there is a system that’s heavily weighted in your favour.

Not at all.
I don't seek an advantage, just a fair level playing field that I don't believe exists at the moment.
I just am just pointing out the failures we currently have & making suggestions on how they may be rectified.
Most people do see the problem, a few are sadly still in denial.

 

[rulefan]

It would seem that many issues regarding 'too high' caps is related to certain clubs. The impression I am getting from this forum is that some Handicap Committees appear to have neglected their responsibilities or more likely are simply under resourced. I have not heard or seen any stories of problems in this neck of the woods. Neither the county nor the regional advisor have had any complaints to the best of my knowledge.

 

[Backsticks]

Can you honestly not comprehend why someone might require a higher handicap beyond simply not being very good (not that that is a valid reason to refuse to allow someone to have a handicap or play competitively)?

I can comprehend why someone might require require a higher handicap. It refects their playing ability. No problem.
But I cannot comprehend (beyond a sort of everyones-a-winner, group hug of all handicap levels, woke spin off, tendency or misguided EG strategy that higher hcs would increase participation and to hell with HC integrity) a spoiling of the handicap principle that has allowed golfers to compete on a broadly levelling playing field. It has been a great strength of golf. But when hcs can be so high that variances go off the scale the handicap house of cards itself crumbles. The hc system doesnt work (for men anyway) beyond somewhere in the twenties. Allow them high, as a sort of learners training wheels, but dont pretend they are of the same value as the traditional range.

 

[Captain_Black.]

Can you honestly not comprehend why someone might require a higher handicap beyond simply not being very good (not that that is a valid reason to refuse to allow someone to have a handicap or play competitively)?

I also don't see what your irrational hatred of bad golfers has to do with handicapping.

Don't forget, not so long ago high handicappers wouldn't have even been allowed on many golf courses let alone play in comps.
Some courses like this may still exist?
Not that I wish us to return to that.
But.
It remains my opinion that any h/c system will only work within certain parameters, any player that falls outside of this parameter should concentrate on improvement to atain a sensible handicap.

 

[Backsticks]

It would seem that many issues regarding 'too high' caps is related to certain clubs. The impression I am getting from this forum is that some Handicap Committees appear to have neglected their responsibilities or more likely are simply under resourced. I have not heard or seen any stories of problems in this neck of the woods. Neither the county nor the regional advisor have had any complaints to the best of my knowledge.

Some clubs will either have a high playing level membership with little turnover of members, simply not be accepting new members at all or in any significant numbers, require that they have establish lowish handicaps before they can join anyway. New handicaps arent really a thing. They will not have a problem. Nobody is being allocated 45. No problem.

 

[Backsticks]

Don't forget, not so long ago high handicappers wouldn't have even been allowed on many golf courses let alone play in comps.
Some courses like this may still exist?
Not that I wish us to return to that.
But.
It remains my opinion that any h/c system will only work within certain parameters, any player that falls outside of this parameter should concentrate on improvement to atain a sensible handicap.

No need for them to concentrate on improvement. Playing off 40 is fine. As long as it has some ring fencing as a learners or second class handicap and doesnt mix with the traditional range in any formal competition.

 

[Swango1980]

Surely this should be asked in the interview to join the club.

I did ask the question a long time ago, and was assured the workload of the Handicap Comittiee would not go up.
This given what is going on has proven wrong .As it’s all their fault now.

Interview!? You must be joking. You pay your membership at the till, then you are a member. If Putin wanted to join, no problem at all.

 

[Swango1980]

It is, and always has been, the job of the Handicap Committee to determine any previous handicap/playing history of any player seeking an initial handicap - a very basic step.

Absolutely. But if the player fails to give you that information, it may not be the easiest thing to find out.

 

[rulefan]

Absolutely. But if the player fails to give you that information, it may not be the easiest thing to find out.

If they won't don't let them join. If they won't and you do let them join - who's to blame when they win all the prizes?
But what is the difficulty in finding their history?

 

[D-S]

If they won't don't let them join. If they won't and you do let them join - who's to blame when they win all the prizes?
But what is the difficulty in finding their history?

This is exactly how it should work in a well run club and if it doesn’t the members should act to make certain it does.
However this doesn’t happen at poorly run clubs and farcical competitions are probably a price of membership. The difficulty arises when unscrupulous members of such clubs play in Opens and make a nonsense of them. We now play Opens to enjoy good courses (normally well presented) at slightly discounted prices, the thought of winning or doing well doesn’t feature in the day for us.

 

[Swango1980]

If they won't don't let them join. If they won't and you do let them join - who's to blame when they win all the prizes?
But what is the difficulty in finding their history?

So, a player fails to mention they were a member before. Instead of believing they are new to golf, club should just assume they are lying and not accept their membership?

 

[rulefan]

So, a player fails to mention they were a member before. Instead of believing they are new to golf, club should just assume they are lying and not accept their membership?

No. The club should ask the player what their golfing background is. Is that a difficult question?
If the prospective new member is genuine, they will provide the information. Their name can be checked on WHS.

 

[wjemather]

It is very likely that those on the Committee have no idea he used to be at the club, or play off single figures. Therefore, they will have treated him as a new member. Sure, someone at the club could inform the Committee if they knew of his previous record, but I assume they have not given he is still off 20.0 Index. However, it is good to know that we can still accuse the Handicap Committee of failing to do their job.

Not could - must. And why haven't you?

All players who are aware, including you, have an obligation to ensure the handicap committee is also aware, both of the player's previous handicap and that their current handicap is not reflective of their demonstrated ability.

 

[rulefan]

Interview!? You must be joking. You pay your membership at the till, then you are a member. If Putin wanted to join, no problem at all.

What sort of golf club is this? Who runs it? Who organises comps? Who organises anything?

 

[Golfnut1957]

What sort of golf club is this? Who runs it? Who organises comps? Who organises anything?

Real world?

 

[rulefan]

Real world?

Hardly. If they are concerned with handicaps who manages the comps? If they don't run comps why are they concerned with handicaps?

 

[IanM]

Real world?

@rulefan is absolutely correct, about what "should happen" but there are, as @Swango1980 said, clubs where the primary concern is taking the fee and roles like handicap committee are just not done properly. (For whatever reason)