nickjdavis
Head Pro
Some would view that as being a system that is more responsive to changes in a players form.
WHS doesn't work
- Thread starter Captain_Black.
- Start date
Some would view that as being a system that is more responsive to changes in a players form.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Yeah, I don't really think that's a good thing. If someone has six weeks of bad form for whatever reason it doesn't mean they're no longer capable of a good round does it? I do think overall the system is too quick to give people more shots.
What do you allow for though? The one in 4 months good round or your everyday play? It used to be the former, now it is the latter. It's more representative of what you actually play to, not what you might play to.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Yeah, I'm not sure the old system was perfect either, but this is too far the opposite way. Ideally would want a happy medium between the two.
But hey they're not going to change it again so it is what it is now.
Yes, the other system was way too slow to react, perhaps this is too quick. Maybe best 10 out of 20 spreads it better? Whatever they do, someone wont be happyYeah, I'm not sure the old system was perfect either, but this is too far the opposite way. Ideally would want a happy medium between the two.
I do feel this one is the happy medium. Your last sentence is the flaw in the old system in a nutshell. ie, that it was a badge of honour, and that you could hold it. Meaning it could be incorrect but you live in the glow of it nonetheless. That cant be a good system for fair handicapped competition golf.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
In next 7 rounds (so quite near time period) I have 4 that count to my handicap. I know that if I play to roughly the average of these four rounds each time one is about to drop from my 20 then my handicap index will remain pretty much as it is. If I can’t, then it will go up…and that’s the right thing to happen as these rounds will be demonstrated by my own golf to be unrepresentative of my current form.
And I get that WHS is about form and not stretch ability, and that for me is how it should be. I know that I can occasionally play maybe 3 or 4 shots under my current CH of 9 - that’s for me to know - I don’t need a handicap that pretends to myself and others that I am better than I actually am.
And I get that WHS is about form and not stretch ability, and that for me is how it should be. I know that I can occasionally play maybe 3 or 4 shots under my current CH of 9 - that’s for me to know - I don’t need a handicap that pretends to myself and others that I am better than I actually am.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
I definitely don't think you should keep a handicap forever if you're not able to play to it anymore. But at the moment I feel like you can earn a particular handicap and just have it wiped off within a few weeks which doesn't seem right either.
Old Colner
Club Champion
I do feel some compensation should be given to the conditions, playing Saturday in the wind & rail is a comparable round to one in the middle of July with perfect conditions, if that is what PCC is supposed to do, it has kicked in once in two years at ours, with reflection maybe that is what the eight from twenty gives you.
Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
I think its pretty much doing what its supposed to do…whether that’s what any given individual wants from ‘their’ handicap system is another matter
nickjdavis
Head Pro
I guess it works differently for different people....folks who play maybe only a couple of competitions a month and don't submit any general play cards wont be susceptible to such variance. Those who are playing twice a week and submitting all cards will.
...and before folks pipe up saying that players should submit every card....I simply do not believe that the majority of golfers who play regular competition golf think or operate this way.
Looking at the stats from my club there is an obvious inverse correlation between players who submit scores from comps and those who submit sores from general play....the golfers who are responsible for the 10% fewest competition entries have submitted 68% of all general play scores. The golfers who have submitted the fewest 10% of GP rounds are responsible for 75% of the competition scores. It would not surprise me in the slightest, if this pattern was repeated at a significant majority of clubs across the country.
sweaty sock
Hacker
As we are all painfully aware, ability in golf is slow to change, form changes from day to day. Seems clear ability is no longer tracked and form is all that counts... for me thats worse for lots of reasons. The congu system had easy ways to adjust if ability was suddenly affected....
HampshireHog
Assistant Pro
Not strictly true due to HI cap. I agree with sentiment though, personally I wouldn’t allow general play cards to be submitted if you have another card submitted in the previous 7 days.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
But who needs to know your stretch ability other than yourself.
On a day2day basis, and in the short term, it is only in a competitive context that my handicap actually matters - and it is my current form that will in general determine my competitiveness.
I came to accept some time after the switch that my stretch ability as reflected by my handicap under the old system, was for me, simply something for my ego and to ‘impress’ others. I am much more comfortable today telling another golfer that my HI is 8.2 than I was previously telling him I am 8 and used to be 6.
sweaty sock
Hacker
For me you shouldnt be winning a competition, or even a sweep with your mates, unless youre playing to your stretch ability. So your handicap should absolutely be closely related to it.
If you needed it for your ego, then thats on you. I need my old handicap it because I dont want a handicap that lets me win when playing average.
Only my opinion.
chrisd
Major Champion
So I played a comp yesterday where, after a couple of holes, it rained fairly hard for the rest of the front nine. I scored 13 points, the greens and the bunkers played harder because of the water and the rain on my glasses. On the back 9, the rain stopped and I played better as the weather improved, the sun came out and I scored 19 points. Then my handicap jumps up because I had a - 2 year old - competition winning score (86) dropping out, to be replaced by a weather affected score (91). I think I'd rather the old way of a .1 addition as i cant see why a 2 year old score affects one 2 years later
D
Deleted member 1147
Guest
I agree that the new system is useless, unless you play plenty and put in lots of cards.
My handicap is being mostly affected by good scores last year. I haven't actually played to my handicap, save for 2 rounds which were equal to, or below course rating. Yet I have gone down from 2.8 to 2.2.
It doesn't work because my usual friendly games are matchplay, so i can't put in a card as we have gimmies and don't always finish holes out. either that, or when i play on Saturdays I often play club matches rather than joining the weekly stab' or medal.
Under the old system I would have gone up 0.5, rather than down 0.6. The old system is more reflective of my golf this season.
My handicap is being mostly affected by good scores last year. I haven't actually played to my handicap, save for 2 rounds which were equal to, or below course rating. Yet I have gone down from 2.8 to 2.2.
It doesn't work because my usual friendly games are matchplay, so i can't put in a card as we have gimmies and don't always finish holes out. either that, or when i play on Saturdays I often play club matches rather than joining the weekly stab' or medal.
Under the old system I would have gone up 0.5, rather than down 0.6. The old system is more reflective of my golf this season.
I think I do understand what you mean, and I used to think like that - handicap improvement was something to work towards, and it wasnt going to go back up much in 2 or 3 cards, whereas whs can.
But I think the flaw in the thinking is about handicaps being 'earned'.
While we probably thought that way due to the quicker downward than upwards dynamic of uhs, it wasnt really the core aim of it either - that everyone in a competition on a given day ostensibly has a handicap that gives everyone an equal chance that very day. Its goal wasnt really as a relatively stable indicator of your level as a golfer. Though uhs did that for us, and we were used to it. WHS doesnt, but is more reflective of your recent form, and so a better predictor of how many shot you, and everyone else in the field, should be handicapped that day for a fair competition.
That it doesnt 'age' your scores is maybe its weakness. Though the same criticism could be levelled at the old system - while your hc wasnt explicitly calculated on a 2 or 3 year old score, in reality, the limits on upwards movement meant they still determined your hc today. Unless you had a very dramatic loss of form that attracted manual adjustment from the hc committee or end of year review, you were not going to have your hc increase by more than a shot a year, if even. So the 3 years ago starting point was still influencing your hc 3 years later.
But I do see the weakness of WHS as its lack of aging of scores or failure to account for scores frequency. I put in 25-30 competition scores each year, so my 20 scores are never that old. If someone is only putting in 2 or 3, then yes, there is no way it can indicate form. But then, nor did uhs.
D-S
Well-known member
Outside club medals and , the vast majority of my golf is either team (scratch foursomes), roll-up Bowmaker style competitions (2 out of 3 or 3 out of 4), club knockouts or 4BB matchplay. I can’t remember the last time I played an individual medal/Stableford that wasn’t a club or Open comp. This is typical for most people I know and/or play with. The new system based on a significant proportion of your current golf cannot work for me unless I change the format I have played most of my non competition golf in for the past 20 odd years.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Agree with this totally.
The old system suited some but not others.
The new WHS suits some but not others.
But my biggest bug is under the old system sub 60 nett / 50+ points just never happened.
Now it’s once a mouth.
