WHS doesn't work

[Backache]

Is that not the issue, and why some feel their handicaps are now uncompetitive ?

If some of the golfing population is complying with the whs principle, and as you say, their handicaps are going up (reflecting their real golf play, not just a subset of their rounds), but some are not, and so keeping their handicaps lower than whs expects, then they cannot complain about those using whs correctly, winning more .

Further, could this trend be more common among lower handicappers, who tend to be more reluctant to let their headline handicap rise and lose the prestige that gives ? And so further distancing themselves relatively, from high hcs ? And making them even less competitive than even the levelling of the playing field correction, that whs brought after uhc.
If so, no wonder they find they cannot compete as before - but much of it is self inflicted.

People play golf in different ways but if your intention at the start of a round is not to play strictly according to the rules of golf the round should not count for WHS.
I virtually never take provisionals in casual golf. I may not putt out. If there are slow players on the course I may skip a hole. If invited to play through I may pick up. Counting this rather large subset of rounds would make a mockery of any handicap system and would diverge significantly from the guidance.

 

[Backsticks]

People play golf in different ways but if your intention at the start of a round is not to play strictly according to the rules of golf the round should not count for WHS.
I virtually never take provisionals in casual golf. I may not putt out. If there are slow players on the course I may skip a hole. If invited to play through I may pick up. Counting this rather large subset of rounds would make a mockery of any handicap system and would diverge significantly from the guidance.

I see your point. And would tend towards the same view, but asking myself if its not just an old uhc habit, that is a not in the whs philosophy.

If whs is encouraging doing just that, submitting all rounds, and some people are -perfectly legitimately - doing so, yet others arent, doesnt that lead to two levels of handicaps ?

 

[Maninblack4612]

Another factor, which existed prior to WHS, is that every club will have a constant stream of rapidly improving players where the handicap system won't fully reflect the rate of improvement in their game. It easier for a 28 handicapper to improve by 10 strokes than someone off single figures or even, say, 16 or 17. The only sensible option is to run competitions in divisions & restrict board competitions to 20 or 24.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Is that not the issue, and why some feel their handicaps are now uncompetitive ?

If some of the golfing population is complying with the whs principle, and as you say, their handicaps are going up (reflecting their real golf play, not just a subset of their rounds), but some are not, and so keeping their handicaps lower than whs expects, then they cannot complain about those using whs correctly, winning more .

Further, could this trend be more common among lower handicappers, who tend to be more reluctant to let their headline handicap rise and lose the prestige that gives ? And so further distancing themselves relatively, from high hcs ? And making them even less competitive than even the levelling of the playing field correction, that whs brought after uhc.
If so, no wonder they find they cannot compete as before - but much of it is self inflicted.

My ego liked that I was an 8 under the old system. But that was my stretch and I only played to it or better maybe 2 in 10. Most of the time I play within buffer or over. My current CH is 9 and I am working to get it to 8, but that is taking effort and for me it means my golf is actually better than it was. When I achieve that goal of 8 I suspect my ‘stretch’ will be closer to 6. I believe my new 8 will be much more competitive than my old 8…but that’s just down to me choosing to work on my game.

 

[Backsticks]

Another factor, which existed prior to WHS, is that every club will have a constant stream of rapidly improving players where the handicap system won't fully reflect the rate of improvement in their game. It easier for a 28 handicapper to improve by 10 strokes than someone off single figures or even, say, 16 or 17. The only sensible option is to run competitions in divisions & restrict board competitions to 20 or 24.

That's true, but as it existed before, it wouldn't explain the reports, or perceptions, that high scores are rampant in some clubs and lower hcs can no longer compete to their satisfaction, or that 'WHS isn't working'.

 

[Junior]

I'm slowly being converted. Indeed, ive won 2 board comps this year largely thanks to it I still think PCC needs addressing, and, the system needs to manage what was the old "CAT 1" handicaps better.

Lots of scratch events are being balloted out at lower levels, previously 2 / 3 may have got you in now it's plus 2. Due to vanity handicaps there were record numbers entering open qualifying and the R&A had to put on an extra event at Hollinwell. I was chatting to a pro at a club near me and he said the guys he was paired with both NR'd and wouldn't have broke 95. He had a 5 and a half hour round at Fairhaven and spent most of his round looking for their balls in the thick stuff. Lots in all the qualifiers didn't break 85.

 

[IanM]

WHS works in maths and therefore works as well as any maths of its type.

There have always been handicap cheats. This has made it easier, should you be so inclined.

 

[clubchamp98]

If WHS is working where are all these really silly scores coming from?
Most would play to their handicap if they were correct.
A good day was a couple under par under the old system ,when a low guy won it was close by one or two shots, I never saw one shoot sub 60 Net or 50+ points.
Under WHS the scores winning are just laughable so something is wrong.
It hasn’t redressed the advantage it’s thrown the bath water out!

 

[clubchamp98]

I'm slowly being converted. Indeed, ive won 2 board comps this year largely thanks to it I still think PCC needs addressing, and, the system needs to manage what was the old "CAT 1" handicaps better.

Lots of scratch events are being balloted out at lower levels, previously 2 / 3 may have got you in now it's plus 2. Due to vanity handicaps there were record numbers entering open qualifying and the R&A had to put on an extra event at Hollinwell. I was chatting to a pro at a club near me and he said the guys he was paired with both NR'd and wouldn't have broke 95. He had a 5 and a half hour round at Fairhaven and spent most of his round looking for their balls in the thick stuff. Lots in all the qualifiers didn't break 85.

I have never understood why anyone would want a low cap that they can’t play to.
It just puts guys who work on their game a lot out of these comps.
Really selfish.

 

[Backsticks]

If WHS is working where are all these really silly scores coming from?

The scores are only silly from a UHS perspective. They are not silly from a WHS perspective - but only appear silly to those who are not fully conforming to the intent of WHS, but still operating in a UHS mode of only considering competition scores as meriting inclusion in their handicap profile and eschewing putting in non competition cards.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

When I’m king no adult will be allowed more than one shot per hole in any kind of competition.

 

[Maninblack4612]

The scores are only silly from a UHS perspective. They are not silly from a WHS perspective - but only appear silly to those who are not fully conforming to the intent of WHS, but still operating in a UHS mode of only considering competition scores as meriting inclusion in their handicap profile and eschewing putting in non competition cards.

What's to say that competition only scores are not representative of the players normal play? We play matchplay on non competition days & our scores don't differ from the ones we typically return in competition. We don't avoid competitions, just prefer to play 4BBB when there are four of us because medal or strokeplay is too slow in a fourball.

 

[Imurg]

When I’m king no adult will be allowed more than one shot per hole in any kind of competition.

Fragger gets 2 on a par 3 that I don't get any on...I'll vote for ya!

 

[IanM]

The massive variance of when and how many cards folk lodge for handicap is a huge over sight by the authorities.

In their defence, it would be nearly impossible to get the balance right too.

 

[Backsticks]

In their defence too, they are urging - as many as possible / the more the better. But are meeting resistance.

 

[Orikoru]

In their defence too, they are urging - as many as possible / the more the better. But are meeting resistance.

I don't understand how this would help though. If I put every round in for handicap, my handicap would almost certainly be higher than it is. If a lot of people are in that same boat then how is more cards going to help the situation?

 

[Backsticks]

You are equally saying that your handicap is lower than WHS is designed to have it. So you are disadvantaging yourself in hc competition (or flattering yourself with your HI as it is ?). I think it was bachache made the same observation, that his handicap would rise by submitting more rounds.
I think the problem arises where people take different attitudes to what they think the system should be. And so consistency is lost. Rather than playing it as written, whether agreeing or not with its basis, or disagreeing with what was a different basis in the past. A lot of clever people did a lot of statistics to come up with the WHS I would guess. Best to at least play it as written.

 

[IanM]

In their defence too, they are urging - as many as possible / the more the better. But are meeting resistance.

Absolutely. But,

If it wasn't for this forum, I wouldn't know this was being talked about.

I've never had anything from my club or Wales Golf "encouraging more general play cards."

I am happy to keep a clear line between social golf and comps, as are many golfers. Lots of reasons for this and it'll take some shifting.

Even our Seniors section is actively keeping Mondays for social and Wednesdays for qualifiers!

 

[Backsticks]

Has anyone knowledge of the view on WHS outside our CONGUland and the comparisons and legacy conditions that invites.
Or is the rest of the world happy with it?

 

[clubchamp98]

The scores are only silly from a UHS perspective. They are not silly from a WHS perspective - but only appear silly to those who are not fully conforming to the intent of WHS, but still operating in a UHS mode of only considering competition scores as meriting inclusion in their handicap profile and eschewing putting in non competition cards.

Sorry sub 60 and 50+ point are a silly score whatever system your using.!