WHS doesn't work

[Slab]

I played in a seniors comp yesterday off the forward (our yellow) tees. My CH for the comp was 5. I’ve only got to that in recent weeks. This is first time I’ve played in a club comp off that handicap and it’s my lowest ever in all the decades I’ve played the game. The playing conditions weren’t the easiest and I found it very difficult and scoring 36 pts would have been a huge challenge - I didn’t - by quite some way.

Looking back to Oct 2021 my CH for yellows was 10 (12 for whites and in general I don’t find yellows 2 shots easier). Whether 7 shots lower or 5 the difference is huge, and room for error so small. The holes I wasn’t getting shots on yesterday…

In a field of 72 I was out on my own the lowest handicap - my two playing companions off 21 and 26 were not untypical of the handicaps of the field - though there were a good few in the teens. Don’t think I’ll bother playing in any seniors - or indeed any - strokeplay comps played off the yellows. I’m still in a couple of matchplay comps off yellows - but matchplay is quite another matter.

The above said I clearly should have better chance of winning ‘closest the hole’ stuff. And on two par 3s I won one and was prob second or thereabouts on another, beating a guy playing off 7 in the one I won and coming second to him in the one I didn’t. So can’t complain on that front.

Same observation about divisions really

Players off low single/scratch/+ handicaps shouldn’t be in the same full field comp division as 28/36/54 handicap players. Not a fault with the system that allocated the handicaps, fault with the club/comp committee

Although not being anywhere close to your handicap makes it a bit of a moot point
(relatively speaking as a mid-handicap I’ve recently done a similar poor scoring comp in tough conditions but others seemed to manage ok, so I know your pain)

 

[Deleted member 30522]

Wouldn’t the fact that they were uploading 100% CH not 85% be stark staring obvious in the very first and any test of the system prior to going live on 1st April?
Even if they were dumb enough not to have ever run one test comp prior to going live, then it would still be stark staring obvious on checking the first submission in the first few days of April?
People were highlighting problems early and surely someone from EG/Dotgolf would be cross referring submissions from each of the ISVs with them, surely?
Here we are 29 days later with a fix being put in despite I would assume many hundred players having vastly reduced SDs put on their record and with significant changes to HI as a lot have resulted in Exceptional Score adjustments.

Having fought with Scottish Golf for over a year on the dotgolf garbage platform, this is in no way a surprise. Maybe I am too harsh on SG, perhaps it is indeed dotgolf that are incompetent and not SG. In fairness, maybe they should be doing more to throw their supplier under the bus if that's the case, instead of continually blaming the end user.

 

[DickInShorts]

Asan aside to swingitlikehogan’s comments above:

I played a seniors event at Alford yesterday - we all ‘lost’ 4 shots off our HI to PH - par 69 CR 65.1 SR 111.

Best score was 37 points - no others above 35 - PCC of 3 shots.

 

[Swango1980]

Asan aside to swingitlikehogan’s comments above:

I played a seniors event at Alford yesterday - we all ‘lost’ 4 shots off our HI to PH - par 69 CR 65.1 SR 111.

Best score was 37 points - no others above 35 - PCC of 3 shots.

I assume PCC is based on Score Differentials, which have not changed since April. So, the fact the Stableford scores are lower after the April changes, shouldn't impact PCC (unless there are any marginal differences to Score Diff due to nett double bogey adjustments?)

 

[woofers]

I assume PCC is based on Score Differentials, which have not changed since April. So, the fact the Stableford scores are lower after the April changes, shouldn't impact PCC (unless there are any marginal differences to Score Diff due to nett double bogey adjustments?)

I wouldn’t assume anything regarding PCC.
My experience is that it does kick in more often now, following the changes made last year (?), a lot of the Open competitions I play in result in PCC adjustments.

 

[Swango1980]

I wouldn’t assume anything regarding PCC.
My experience is that it does kick in more often now, following the changes made last year (?), a lot of the Open competitions I play in result in PCC adjustments.

Yeah, wasn't saying I have any full faith in it. After all, many told us it was doing exactly what it was supposed to when WHS began......then low and behold, they change the calculation for it to do something different. Perhaps it is better now, not sure. But I wouldn't bet my house that they have now found the perfect PCC calculation, that will remain untouched in the future.

However, I can't see how the change in the Course Handicap calculation would have any impact on it after April this year, except for potentially a barely noticeable impact if nett double bogey adjustments for some players result in a slightly different Score Diff.

 

[wjemather]

I wouldn’t assume anything regarding PCC.
My experience is that it does kick in more often now, following the changes made last year (?), a lot of the Open competitions I play in result in PCC adjustments.

The PCC changes came into effect for GB&I in August 2022.

 

[Mandofred]

I turned in a general play card yesterday, England Golf site has it but hasn't calculated anything overnight. They took the oldest score off and added my new one, but only have 7 scores as counting. This happened a couple of weeks ago as well. They eventually changed it.

 

[NearHull]

We had 5 members with penalty scores for non submissions for 21 Apr. Three for our front 9 off Blue tees and two for 18 holes at Gleneagles. Our Blue tees are rarely played and we were not qualifying until 27 Apr. I’m aware that two of them received EG warnings by email.

As the EG database Default Markers settings were not enabled , I think the inputs must have come from CkubV1 testing. I can’t find any of our ClubV1 administrators carrying out any testing - perhaps it was ClubV1 software developers? I’ve deleted 4 of the penalty scores, just waiting to confirm the last one didn’t sneak up to Gleneagles when he was supposedly working.

Anyone else seen similar?

 

[wjemather]

I turned in a general play card yesterday, England Golf site has it but hasn't calculated anything overnight. They took the oldest score off and added my new one, but only have 7 scores as counting. This happened a couple of weeks ago as well. They eventually changed it.

Your 21st score is still counting as there is an unacceptable score (marked as match play) in the most recent 20.

 

[Swango1980]

Not really a major thing, but found this amusing last night.

The MyEG App is clearly broken when trying to add a Guest in to your round. I did so last night, put in his Index of 8.2 which should have given him a Course Handicap of 10.

The App gave him a final score of 93 points!!!!!!!!!!

It has clearly failed to register the Index I put in, and by default given him an Index of 54.0 and a Course Handicap of 67. I wondered if it was something stupid I did, but the other chap in our group was also recording all our scores in MyEG, and the App did exactly the same thing for him.

 

[DickInShorts]

Not really a major thing, but found this amusing last night.

The MyEG App is clearly broken when trying to add a Guest in to your round. I did so last night, put in his Index of 8.2 which should have given him a Course Handicap of 10.

The App gave him a final score of 93 points!!!!!!!!!!

It has clearly failed to register the Index I put in, and by default given him an Index of 54.0 and a Course Handicap of 67. I wondered if it was something stupid I did, but the other chap in our group was also recording all our scores in MyEG, and the App did exactly the same thing for him.

I think it’s been around for a while.
I’ve come across it twice when the player hasn’t been ‘looked up’ from a club.

 

[IanM]

Chap I played with this morning was really miffed that his CH was 7 and his PH was 6 (according to the app).

95% of 7 is clearly 6.6, therefore he should get 7.

I explained but he wasn't having it, and spent much of the round moaning about computer errors!

So, in the bar, we went through the maths. Yep. Spot on.

Response? The App shouldn't show CH as that confuses people. Oh well.....

 

[Alan Clifford]

Chap I played with this morning was really miffed that his CH was 7 and his PH was 6 (according to the app).

95% of 7 is clearly 6.6, therefore he should get 7.

I explained but he wasn't having it, and spent much of the round moaning about computer errors!

So, in the bar, we went through the maths. Yep. Spot on.

Response? The App shouldn't show CH as that confuses people. Oh well.....

Maybe it should be renamed to "Playing handicap at 100%" and should be displayed with something called "Unrounded course handicap" although a sexier name for the latter would be better.

 

[D-S]

Chap I played with this morning was really miffed that his CH was 7 and his PH was 6 (according to the app).

95% of 7 is clearly 6.6, therefore he should get 7.

I explained but he wasn't having it, and spent much of the round moaning about computer errors!

So, in the bar, we went through the maths. Yep. Spot on.

Response? The App shouldn't show CH as that confuses people. Oh well.....

A month in and there are still questions coming in about 'wrong' playing handicaps. Why can't the computer do 95% properly? Are the boards wrong? (well sort of) Why is it rounded in matchplay (except Greensomes of course) and unrounded in strokeplay? Why weren't we told? etc. etc. and this is just from people on committees Tried explaining 'machine precision' to someone who runs a large golf society, a serious waste of a good hour or so.

Seems like 4BB is not the same catastrophe it was last week but still questions abound from sensible heads about Score Differentials derived from 4BB. Also the portal seems to be throwing up more glitches than usual.

Still plastic hole liners can now be used in exceptional circumstances in qualifying golf so some key strides forward are being made.

 

[Swango1980]

Chap I played with this morning was really miffed that his CH was 7 and his PH was 6 (according to the app).

95% of 7 is clearly 6.6, therefore he should get 7.

I explained but he wasn't having it, and spent much of the round moaning about computer errors!

So, in the bar, we went through the maths. Yep. Spot on.

Response? The App shouldn't show CH as that confuses people. Oh well.....

Or at least the App should give Course Handicap as a decimal. I had 3 texts from different golfers this week, asking why their PH was wrong in draw. They were getting 1 less shot than others with same CH seemingly.

I'm not even a handicap sec, it was just people I know texting as I used to be one.

Then, at club, there were loads rubbishing the system as wrong as it hadn't been explained to them. And in fairness, it looks wrong to the casual golfer.

It is sometimes like one step forward, two steps back. They are determined to make WHS seem like a dark art to most casual golfers

 

[NearHull]

I was registering players at our Open this week. We print a label with their PH on it to stick to the card. All entrants but one were happy with their PH. One came back to say that by using EG he’d worked out 85% PH allowance and he got a different PH and our computer was wrong. I explained that he was using double rounding and the machine precision only rounds once. He said he understood, but his face didn’t agree with his voice.

Nothing unusual in the above exchange, except he’d previously told me that he was the Handicap and Competitions Secretary for his club!

 

[wjemather]

A month in and there are still questions coming in about 'wrong' playing handicaps. Why can't the computer do 95% properly? Are the boards wrong? (well sort of) Why is it rounded in matchplay (except Greensomes of course) and unrounded in strokeplay? Why weren't we told? etc. etc. and this is just from people on committees Tried explaining 'machine precision' to someone who runs a large golf society, a serious waste of a good hour or so.

There's simply no excuse for handicap committees being ignorant of the changes.

 

[D-S]

There's simply no excuse for handicap committees being ignorant of the changes.

Couldn’t agree more, but unfortunately a surprising amount are.

 

[wjemather]

Couldn’t agree more, but unfortunately a surprising amount are.

Most of the basic questions I see come from club management and admin staff who wouldn't be expected to know this stuff rather than handicap committees (some of which I know are sufficiently knowledgeable). If anything it highlights the lack of effective communication/organisation within some golf clubs rather than lack of knowledge within handicap committees - why aren't they consulting their handicap committees before going to county or the internet?? - and where daily handicap admin is being performed by insufficiently knowledgeable club staff without the necessary checks.