WHS doesn't work

[PJ87]

Because I'm crap at golf? It's just that my course is short so we have low course ratings, typically I tended to get more shots at other courses which were rated harder (because they're longer).


Why should I care what anyone else is doing?

I'd say if you go to your pro for a bunker lesson and a green reading lesson you will get down to 10

Then I'll get more shots

 

[doublebogey7]

Because I'm crap at golf? It's just that my course is short so we have low course ratings, typically I tended to get more shots at other courses which were rated harder (because they're longer).


Why should I care what anyone else is doing?

You are still misunderstanding, previousley course ratings didn't enter into the course handicap calculation so if you had a higher handicap at those courses it simply because of a higher the slope rating. Course ratings now come into the calculation so if the course is longer (relative to par I'll add) you'll be getting more shots, but you are not so they must be short courses.

 

[rulefan]

Wasn't sss similar to course ratiing rather than slope rating?

Yes. After the EG (men) switching to the USGA rating system but just prior to WHS, the USGA CR was rounded to produce the SSS. All the other CONGU unions had been doing it for years.
Slope is in effect a comparison/relationship between the Course Rating and the Bogey Rating

 

[rulie]

Because I'm crap at golf? It's just that my course is short so we have low course ratings, typically I tended to get more shots at other courses which were rated harder (because they're longer).


Why should I care what anyone else is doing?

I think that I understand now, it's all about you, not the system's performance.

 

[AussieKB]

I would argue that some of the aspects are not exactly straightforward concepts and it doesn't surprise me that people struggle to understand them. When it's too taxing for the typical golfer to worry about we apply our own kind of 'layman's' meaning of it. Like, we know slope doesn't equal difficulty exactly, but there is a broad correlation that difficult courses tend to have higher slope ratings, so it's close enough to think of that way.

I don't even understand where 113 comes from as the mid-point number. They invented this calculation out of thin air, why would you pick the most awkward number possible? Why not make 100 the mid-point?? It's like they don't actually want the average golfer to understand it.

In OZ when they asked an OZ Golf Official to explain how they got 113.......his answer was duh.....
just something the Yanks came up with, says it all really.

 

[Swango1980]

In OZ when they asked an OZ Golf Official to explain how they got 113.......his answer was duh.....
just something the Yanks came up with, says it all really.

No need to stereotype all Aussies in a negative light

 

[clubchamp98]

No need to stereotype all Aussies in a negative light

He wasn’t !
He was talking about one official.

 

[Crow]

Because I'm crap at golf? It's just that my course is short so we have low course ratings, typically I tended to get more shots at other courses which were rated harder (because they're longer).


Why should I care what anyone else is doing?

One reason that you're now losing shots at many courses is because of the yardage gains that all golfers have seen over the last 25 years or so.

The par for a hole, and hence a course, generally has its basis on a long-standing range of yardages; up to 250 = par 3 etc. But all golfers are hitting the ball further than they would have done 25 years ago and so cumulatively they will get more par or birdie opportunities and score lower.

Some clubs have had room to extend holes and so par keeps abreast of CR. Many in built up areas haven't and so their overall yardage makes them easier and their CR is lower than their par.

A solution to this would be to extend the yardage ratings, for example:
Up to 280 par 3
280 to 550 par 4
Over 550 par 5
This would see a few holes reduced in par and so a course par would more closely reflect it's CR.

Here to help.

 

[D-S]

One reason that you're now losing shots at many courses is because of the yardage gains that all golfers have seen over the last 25 years or so.

The par for a hole, and hence a course, generally has its basis on a long-standing range of yardages; up to 250 = par 3 etc. But all golfers are hitting the ball further than they would have done 25 years ago and so cumulatively they will get more par or birdie opportunities and score lower.

Some clubs have had room to extend holes and so par keeps abreast of CR. Many in built up areas haven't and so their overall yardage makes them easier and their CR is lower than their par.

A solution to this would be to extend the yardage ratings, for example:
Up to 280 par 3
280 to 550 par 4
Over 550 par 5
This would see a few holes reduced in par and so a course par would more closely reflect it's CR.

Here to help.

If we used your proposed par / yardage, the CR par differential at my course would increase from 71.6 70 to 71.6 68. This would make the situation worse.

 

[Crow]

If we used your proposed par / yardage, the CR par differential at my course would increase from 71.6 70 to 71.6 68. This would make the situation worse.

Yours must be one of the courses that has kept pace with yardage gains or has already changed one or two holes that were par fives into par fours. I was thinking more of courses that have a CR lower than par, which are many.

My proposal was just to bring par back into line with where it was before everyone started hitting the ball further.

Which course is it out of interest?

 

[Springveldt]

See that sounds a lot fairer.

One of the few appeals of going to WHS was getting more shots at harder courses. That made sense to me. Now they've changed it and that seems to be out the window, I'm back to just having the same PH everywhere. One step forward, two back.

Course rating and slope would suggest that it's actually an easy course. Rated at 1.5 shots less than par and 122 slope is below UK average.

You will get more shots at courses that have been rated harder.

 

[Orikoru]

Course rating and slope would suggest that it's actually an easy course. Rated at 1.5 shots less than par and 122 slope is below UK average.

You will get more shots at courses that have been rated harder.

It just felt a lot harder than the ratings suggest with the 30mph cross-breeze and the 4 inch rough, that's all I think.

 

[Springveldt]

There's no way you can argue that that wasn't a simpler calculation than what we have now.

I can do the maths for score differential minus the score dif it's replacing divided by 8 to work out my cut now - but I need a calculator. And working out the score differential in the first place? No chance.

Just have a look at your differentials compared to what you actually shot compared to course rating and work out what 1 stroke is worth.

At my old course and new one both slopes are close (139 and 135) so basically 1 shot over course rating is around 0.8 for differential. So I can quick maffs it if I wanted to when walking off before any PCC adjustment as I'll just say in my head (shot 8 over CR today to that's a 6.4 differential).

I don't do it as I just keep my score compared to par in my head then put my gross in at the end and let the computer do all the work.

 

[Springveldt]

It was easier once you allowed yourself to become educated in it. I was handicap secretary, and trust me, there were many many golfers that thought it was just as difficult as nuclear physics. All sorts of questions. Who gets 0.2, 0.3, 0.4, etc. What are the handicap ranges to get those various cuts, and what happens if I go from one handicap range to another midway through a cut. What are buffer zones for each handicap category. How is CSS worked out and hot does that impact the calculation. What about Exceptional Score reductions? It is all easy, but to many golfers who just hate talking numbers, you might as well be speaking to them in a foreign language.

WHS is mathematically just as easy. OK, you need access to an App if you want to have any idea how your handicap will change after a round (subject to PCC), as I'm sure no-one will remember their last 20 scores. But, App in hand, it is all very simple to understand, IF you are willing.

I just focus on a couple of thing before going out for a round.
1. Do I have a score coming off today?
2. If nothing dropping off, what's my highest counting score.

Then I aim to play to or better than that score.

I really like WHS, I think it's a better system than CONGU due to course rating and slope and I also like the fact that you get "free" rounds so to speak when you don't have a score dropping off. With CONGU it felt like you where always trying to play to buffer at a minimum.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

I just focus on a couple of thing before going out for a round.
1. Do I have a score coming off today?
2. If nothing dropping off, what's my highest counting score.

Then I aim to play to or better than that score.

I really like WHS, I think it's a better system than CONGU due to course rating and slope and I also like the fact that you get "free" rounds so to speak when you don't have a score dropping off. With CONGU it felt like you were always trying to play to buffer at a minimum.

Do you not just aim to shoot the best score you can regardless of whether you have a counting score dropping off?

 

[PJ87]

I just focus on a couple of thing before going out for a round.
1. Do I have a score coming off today?
2. If nothing dropping off, what's my highest counting score.

Then I aim to play to or better than that score.

I really like WHS, I think it's a better system than CONGU due to course rating and slope and I also like the fact that you get "free" rounds so to speak when you don't have a score dropping off. With CONGU it felt like you where always trying to play to buffer at a minimum.

I like whs aswell. Like @BiMGuy says I try to play the best each time

I know now tho after Sunday I have 5 basically free hits at the scores as my next counting one isn't for 5 rounds

 

[Swango1980]

I just focus on a couple of thing before going out for a round.
1. Do I have a score coming off today?
2. If nothing dropping off, what's my highest counting score.

Then I aim to play to or better than that score.

I really like WHS, I think it's a better system than CONGU due to course rating and slope and I also like the fact that you get "free" rounds so to speak when you don't have a score dropping off. With CONGU it felt like you where always trying to play to buffer at a minimum.

This never makes a difference to me.

Even if I am playing shocking front 9, or it is clear I was never going to make buffer pre WHS, each time I stand up to a shot in the final holes, I'm still trying to hit a good one each time. At least give myself something to remember positively, and give me another reason to come back another day.

 

[Alan Clifford]

I really like WHS, I think it's a better system than CONGU due to course rating and slope and I also like the fact that you get "free" rounds so to speak when you don't have a score dropping off. With CONGU it felt like you where always trying to play to buffer at a minimum.

To be honest, I don't like the main statistic being an average with stuff dropping of after an arbitary number of games. At least before it was a continuous function, albeit terribly flawed in its skewedness. 0.4 off for every shot under handicap, nothing off for a bad game and only 0.1 on for a really bad game.

I'm told that world class statisticians were involved in WHS. But were they asked, "What statistic should we use for handicap?" or were they told, "we are going to use a simple average" and then asked, "should we average 8 or 10 scores?".

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Old system was very easy. However many shots under handicap you were, you'd get cut that multiplied by 0.3 or 0.2 etc depending what category you were in. As soon as I finished my round I knew what my cut was going to be. I understood that one.

But I don’t need to know my cut…or indeed any increase - I just wait until the next day and it’ll be there for me. Until any change to my HI is published I just play to my current one. And waiting is easy.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Because I'm crap at golf? It's just that my course is short so we have low course ratings, typically I tended to get more shots at other courses which were rated harder (because they're longer).


Why should I care what anyone else is doing?

Thing is O…if you don’t care what anyone else is doing, then why should you care about what nett or stableford score you shoot. You have your gross and you’ll know whether that is better, worse or the same as what you were hoping for when heading out.