WHS doesn't work

[Captain_Black.]

Are the low handicappers prohibited from playing in winter comps or submitting EG rounds in the app or will their egos not take their handicaps going up a little.
If their handicaps are 6 months behind everyone else then they don't really have much right to complain, do they?

Nothing to do with egos
Everything to do with not wishing to play in atrocious conditions.
Sure we could all nurdle it around it the mud & watch our handicaps rise well above our real ability come the better weather, but some of would consider that handicap manipulation.

In this country, given our weather, where courses cannot support good playing conditions year round, there should be a recognised golf season (April - November)
Outside of this period, qualifiers should not be played.
Otherwise, come Spring certain individuals will be off of inflated handicaps.

 

[JGolfer]

The end of his e-mail said "and constantly scoring below 30 points at their home course", which would imply these crazy high scores are occurring in Opens?

As handicap secretary, I'd definitely would be keen to evaluate their history much more closely, especially if these are happening frequently. And contact their home club if necessary. Are their home club unaware of these players, or failing in their own duties to review handicaps?

One concern I'd have are scores in Open competitions. Although players can manipulate their handicaps, if they do so to score well in home club comps, then the handicap committee should be aware of it (and I'm sure other golfers would quickly highlight it). However, there are golfers out there that play in lots of Opens through the year, and I'm sure some of them are only too happy to have a high handicap to help them win some decent prizes. They could constantly submit bad scores at their home club, then just go out and do really well in Opens, with little chance of their home club ever knowing. This could happen pre and post WHS, although post WHS they can accelerate their handicaps upwards if they want.

So I snooped even further. Because well that many points is absolutely insane.

I was not impressed with what I saw. Looked to my eye that there was clearly something fishy. All her rounds are general play rounds with her husband with really high scores. But her two medal results (only played two) in the last 12 months she scored 29 & 30 points (9hole comps)

 

[IanM]

Nothing to do with egos
Everything to do with not wishing to play in atrocious conditions.
Sure we could all nurdle it around it the mud & watch our handicaps rise well above our real ability come the better weather, but some of would consider that handicap manipulation.

In this country, given our weather, where courses cannot support good playing conditions year round, there should be a recognised golf season (April - November)
Outside of this period, qualifiers should not be played.
Otherwise, come Spring certain individuals will be off of inflated handicaps.

I tend to agree with you, especially the bit about playing conditions.

However, some courses are fine all winter and scores are actually better as there is no rough. Others are clearly not.

But the narrative appears to be everything should count regardless, even matchplay!

 

[LincolnShep]

Home | Orchardleigh Golf Club | Somerset

Orchradleigh Golf Course, Frome, somerset. 8 miles from Bath. 18 hole Brian Huggett designed course. 12 Months membership for £1. Driving Range. Function Rooms. Societies Welcome. Pay and play from £16. Buggies available.

www.orchardleighgolf.com

Cheats' charter... especially if clubs don't keep a handle on it.
Of course I'm sure Orchardleigh are not condoning cheating, just offering a handicap at an affordable price.

If EG offer an "official" handicap for £40, with no oversight, then I suppose they can't be surprised when clubs undercut them to get a share of the pie.

 

[Voyager EMH]

Nothing to do with egos
Everything to do with not wishing to play in atrocious conditions.
Sure we could all nurdle it around it the mud & watch our handicaps rise well above our real ability come the better weather, but some of would consider that handicap manipulation.

In this country, given our weather, where courses cannot support good playing conditions year round, there should be a recognised golf season (April - November)
Outside of this period, qualifiers should not be played.
Otherwise, come Spring certain individuals will be off of inflated handicaps.

That is what we do, in practice, at my club.
1st Nov, white tee markers come in, many yellow tees become the railway sleeper boxes with artificial surface, course not measured from these.
Very soon we need to have placing in general area due to so much mud on the ball - can't have qualifiers.
Social golf only from Nov to March.
I'm not unhappy about that.
If it were a measured course and placing on closely mown only, I would not hand in general play scores in those months, because the course is not really fit to do so and it is chilly out there.

 

[RichA]

Nothing to do with egos
Everything to do with not wishing to play in atrocious conditions.
Sure we could all nurdle it around it the mud & watch our handicaps rise well above our real ability come the better weather, but some of would consider that handicap manipulation.

In this country, given our weather, where courses cannot support good playing conditions year round, there should be a recognised golf season (April - November)
Outside of this period, qualifiers should not be played.
Otherwise, come Spring certain individuals will be off of inflated handicaps.

I would have thought that a golfer who avoids submitting scores for several months in order to maintain their handicap was manipulating it more than somebody who plays competitive rounds and submits scores all year round.
There are plenty of people currently suggesting that scoring is harder right now than it was when greens were soft and you could take advantage of preferred lies.

 

[wjemather]

Nothing to do with egos
Everything to do with not wishing to play in atrocious conditions.
Sure we could all nurdle it around it the mud & watch our handicaps rise well above our real ability come the better weather, but some of would consider that handicap manipulation.

In this country, given our weather, where courses cannot support good playing conditions year round, there should be a recognised golf season (April - November)
Outside of this period, qualifiers should not be played.
Otherwise, come Spring certain individuals will be off of inflated handicaps.

This simply doesn't apply to all (or even a majority of) courses across GB&I, and golf is not a fair-weather sport anyway (for most). I can only think of one or two courses round here where conditions are genuinely unsuitable for an extended period every year.

Anyway, when conditions are genuinely unsuitable, the course can be deemed not acceptable for handicapping by the committee (it should probably be closed anyway), and score entry for handicapping should then be disabled on all systems (comps would then be 'non-qualifying').

 

[clubchamp98]

I get where the lower guys are coming from, but cheats will cheat any system. I guess we're just lucky at our place. We're small, so everyone knows everyone else.
Our order of merit leader this year is mid-single figures and has won his comps with low to mid 30s points. The only 40 pointer was last week by a guy whose 16 HI is definitely genuine. I'm playing him in our matchplay knockout on Saturday, so hopefully that was his aberrant great round for the year rather than the start of a purple patch.

Just checked our comp results for sat.
30 pts was 123rd , 36 pts was 80th.
192 played.

 

[wjemather]

Just checked our comp results for sat.
30 pts was 123rd , 36 pts was 80th.
192 played.

Is this supposed to mean anything?

 

[Bdill93]

Is this supposed to mean anything?

Its gonna be hard to win

 

[wjemather]

Its gonna be hard to win

Is it? Other than it being a field of nearly 200, it's impossible to judge from the information we've been given.

 

[clubchamp98]

I would have thought that a golfer who avoids submitting scores for several months in order to maintain their handicap was manipulating it more than somebody who plays competitive rounds and submits scores all year round.
There are plenty of people currently suggesting that scoring is harder right now than it was when greens were soft and you could take advantage of preferred lies.

I think it’s partly daylight during winter.
anyone with a 9 to 5 job can’t play midweek.
but the retired seniors can play every day ,( inc me)
not saying it’s the only reason but one of them.

 

[clubchamp98]

That is what we do, in practice, at my club.
1st Nov, white tee markers come in, many yellow tees become the railway sleeper boxes with artificial surface, course not measured from these.
Very soon we need to have placing in general area due to so much mud on the ball - can't have qualifiers.
Social golf only from Nov to March.
I'm not unhappy about that.
If it were a measured course and placing on closely mown only, I would not hand in general play scores in those months, because the course is not really fit to do so and it is chilly out there.

Similar at mine.
we have PL in general area so no Qualifiers.
But if you want to put GP card in you could but just PL on cut areas.
Not sure if it’s allowed or not

 

[Captain_Black.]

I would have thought that a golfer who avoids submitting scores for several months in order to maintain their handicap was manipulating it more than somebody who plays competitive rounds and submits scores all year round.
There are plenty of people currently suggesting that scoring is harder right now than it was when greens were soft and you could take advantage of preferred lies.

That would largely depend on individual courses.
Ours, with bog like conditions in winter & uncutable rough even with prefered lies is not conducive to anything like decent golf.
Which is why I don't get the mindset of some individuals.
Sure still go out & have a game, but qualifiers?
Perhaps I'm giving them to much benefit of doubt, I always thought in golf it should be everyone's aim to lower one's handicap & improve.
Maybe a certain section at my club (with a few exceptions) are just happy to see their handicaps rise well above their real ability in better weather?
Anyway, the net result is, I'll just leave them too it & play off the longest tees in comps.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

The last Monthly medal at my place
Div 1 - Net 71 off 5
Div 2 - Net 68 of 15 (second was net 76 off 19)

Previous month was won with net 70 and 72

Previous weekend Stableford winner off yellows 39points

38/39 points seem to be common winning scores off our yellows so far this year. I can only see on with 40.

Which all seems fairly normal to me.

 

[clubchamp98]

Is this supposed to mean anything?

Not to you.
it was just in answer to RichA saying his are won with low to mid 30 pts.

in the real golf world that’s how golfers rate their performances pts make prizes.
your world is a WHS manual.

 

[wjemather]

Not to you.
it was just in answer to RichA saying his are won with low to mid 30 pts.

in the real golf world that’s how golfers rate their performances pts make prizes.
your world is a WHS manual.

Stableford (and nett) scores on their own are meaningless (until April next year), and they don't mean anything to anyone who doesn't make sweeping assumptions. Without knowing course and slope ratings, par for the course, handicap distribution of the field, etc., it's simply impossible to make an intelligent judgement on bare scores; 36 points could be 4 better than handicap, or it could be 4 worse - who knows?

I suppose, from the information given, we could guess that your course has a low CR relative to par and Rich's has a high CR relative to par, but why should we guess when you could simply include the necessary detail?

 

[Voyager EMH]

We are par 70, CR 70.8 and SR 132.

Weekly medal at ours on Tuesday.

1st place: 71 - 10 = 61

2nd place: 99 - 32 = 67

3rd place: 85 - 15 = 70

39 entrants.

Winner made three 2s on his card.
If it had been a board comp he would have been required to walk barefoot over hot coals or endure the ducking stool.

Seriously - he simply played a great round - fair and square.

But if chap in second place had shot a 93 - 32 = 61 ? Lord God Almighty what a furore there would have been.

 

[clubchamp98]

Stableford (and nett) scores on their own are meaningless (until April next year), and they don't mean anything to anyone who doesn't make sweeping assumptions. Without knowing course and slope ratings, par for the course, handicap distribution of the field, etc., it's simply impossible to make an intelligent judgement on bare scores; 36 points could be 4 better than handicap, or it could be 4 worse - who knows?

I suppose, from the information given, we could guess that your course has a low CR relative to par and Rich's has a high CR relative to par, but why should we guess when you could simply include the necessary detail?

As I said “ it wasn’t meant for you”
If someone asks you how you played today do you tell them the Slope rating and CR relative to par before you say “ 36 pts”?

On reflection you probably do.
par 72
Cr 71.7
SR 129

 

[wjemather]

As I said “ it wasn’t meant for you”
If someone asks you how you played today do you tell them the Slope rating and CR relative to par before you say “ 36 pts”?

On reflection you probably do.

Still not giving up the necessary information then.