WHS and Acceptable Rounds

[mikejohnchapman]

Getting my head around the WHS and was looking at what constitutes an Acceptable Round for handicap purposes. From the latest England Golf presentation it's pretty simple:

Rounds played:
•In an authorized format of play;
•Over a minimum number of holes;
•By the Rules of Golf;
•In the company of at least one other person or player;
•On a course with a current Course Rating and Slope Rating.

Left me wondering if all the current conditions for a qualifying score would still apply (eg number of temporary greens, placing other than the 6" rule, more than 50% of bunkers being out of play, etc.)

Presume any local rules would apply but will CONGU / Country bodies be able or willing to impose conditions?

 

[rulefan]

It is not clear yet just what leeway an Authorised Authority has and to what extent CONGU or the national authorities will make variations.
However, the Rule requiring General Play returns (as in Supplementary Scores) has not been included in the USGA version but is in the CONGU draft. So ther certainly is some use of the flexibility in the system.

 

[jim8flog]

I would question if the there are a number of temp greens would it meet your last bullet point.

The third bullet point would rule out most scores coming from swindles that allow gimmes.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

I would question if the there are a number of temp greens would it meet your last bullet point.

The third bullet point would rule out most scores coming from swindles that allow gimmes.

Not my bullets - England Golf.

CONGU currently allow qualifiers with 2 temp. greens so really a case of how much (if any) latitude is given.

As far as swindles is concerned, most seem to have a team based element (2 scores from 4 etc.). That being the case they won't be allowed as acceptable rounds even if the other criteria are met.

 

[duncan mackie]

I agree with Jim; the rated course element fundamentally covers the principles, in the same way that it does currently.

Whilst there could be some changes from the current decisions on what may, or may not, be permitted to change from time to time, I don't expect any massive changes from the current rules. Details however may have to be added, or altered - for example if the relationship between temporary course length changes and CR is permitted to flex as currently will there be a function to be applied to the slope number, or will that remain a constant? Or will that complexity end up leading to an absolute restriction (within the actual rating)?

Doesn't matter what the rules are, only that they are clearly set out (and preferably comprehensible to players and committees alike.

 

[Colin L]

There is a table in the WHS rules of Course Rating adjustments to be made for shortened courses with, if I remember rightly a requirement to refer anything more than 300 yards to the national authority. I don't recollect anything about temporary greens or bunkers out of play. I don't have access to the text at the moment but that's as I recollect.

 

[rulefan]

There is a table in the WHS rules of Course Rating adjustments to be made for shortened courses with, if I remember rightly a requirement to refer anything more than 300 yards to the national authority. I don't recollect anything about temporary greens or bunkers out of play. I don't have access to the text at the moment but that's as I recollect.

You are correct but it will all come down to what leeway the national authorities have to tweak the WHS rules

 

[rulie]

As far as swindles is concerned, most seem to have a team based element (2 scores from 4 etc.). That being the case they won't be allowed as acceptable rounds even if the other criteria are met.

That format is 90% of my play, and I enter all my scores (North America), whether it be best net or Stableford. Why do you think they would be excluded in the future?

 

[YandaB]

You are correct but it will all come down to what leeway the national authorities have to tweak the WHS rules

But surely if they can do that, it's no longer a WHS?

 

[mikejohnchapman]

That format is 90% of my play, and I enter all my scores (North America), whether it be best net or Stableford. Why do you think they would be excluded in the future?

This was explicitly asked and answered.

The logic given was in any team based event (even if individuals score) it could not be an Acceptable Score as team members could help each other. It was also commented on that these would in effect become 3 or 4 ball medals / stablefords where everyone would need to putt out and this would impact pace of play.

 

[Colin L]

There are some 23 formats listed as acceptable scores in WHS terms but each Authorised Association can choose as many or as few of these to be acceptable in its jurisdiction. England, Wales and Scotland have chosen to limit acceptable scores to singles medal play and stableford. Ireland has chosen that plus match play. I expect that in Ruiie's part of the world the list of acceptable score format is longer to be in keeping with what is done at present.

 

[rulie]

This was explicitly asked and answered.

The logic given was in any team based event (even if individuals score) it could not be an Acceptable Score as team members could help each other. It was also commented on that these would in effect become 3 or 4 ball medals / stablefords where everyone would need to putt out and this would impact pace of play.

Well, we take gimmes also, and still post scores as most likely. As Colin says, I expect our handicapping authorities will permit it continue as in the past - we're not going to change our 4x/week games just to suit some unwieldy handicapping requirement. If we had things like a three score minimum per year, as others do, it wouldn't be an issue, but we're required to post all scores where we play our own ball, and I'm fine with that.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Simple question that a PP raised last weekend:

We play a standard roll up on a Saturday - £3 in the pot and payout 1st and 2nd (and cutting the winners 2 and 1 shots x 3 weeks accordingly). Under the WHS do we really need to be making this a qualifying competition and how do we avoid it?

 

[jim8flog]

Simple question that a PP raised last weekend:

We play a standard roll up on a Saturday - £3 in the pot and payout 1st and 2nd (and cutting the winners 2 and 1 shots x 3 weeks accordingly). Under the WHS do we really need to be making this a qualifying competition and how do we avoid it?

This is an interesting comment.

A couple of years or so ago England golf/Congu introduced a requirement that all scores from swindles/roll ups be taken in to consideration at the annual review. The hard bit was trying to get the swindles to keep a record of all the scores and also be willing to give us the record for the annual review. Some of the swindles downright refused to do it.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

This is an interesting comment.

A couple of years or so ago England golf/Congu introduced a requirement that all scores from swindles/roll ups be taken in to consideration at the annual review. The hard bit was trying to get the swindles to keep a record of all the scores and also be willing to give us the record for the annual review. Some of the swindles downright refused to do it.

I run the Saturday roll up so have a record of all the scores and our rules currently have no gimmes and everything holed out.
Let me be upfront - I've not read up anything on the new handicap system but how does the slope rating apply (and isn't it suppose to change daily - who sets this??) and how will we be able to apply appropriate cuts to those taking the money. Hoping the forum experts can give some pointers so I can get some plans together. I've never been asked for the scores even though the club know I have the records

 

[rulefan]

Well, we take gimmes also, and still post scores as most likely. As Colin says, I expect our handicapping authorities will permit it continue as in the past - we're not going to change our 4x/week games just to suit some unwieldy handicapping requirement. If we had things like a three score minimum per year, as others do, it wouldn't be an issue, but we're required to post all scores where we play our own ball, and I'm fine with that.

The US Authorised forms over 9 or 18 holes are:

Individual stroke play
Organized competition
General play 9 18
Stableford — organized competition
Stableford — general play
Par/Bogey — organized competition
Par/Bogey — general play
Maximum Score — organized competition
Maximum Score — general play

Four-Ball stroke play
Organized competition
General play
Stableford — organized competition
Stableford — general play
Par/Bogey — organized competition
Par/Bogey — general play
Maximum Score — organized competition
Maximum Score — general play

Individual match play
Organized competition
General play

Four-Ball match play
Organized competition
General play

 

[rulefan]

But surely if they can do that, it's no longer a WHS?

The Introduction to the Rules includes the following.

The Rules of Handicapping also give those authorized organizations certain discretion to adapt the system to fit their own golfing cultures.

 

[DickInShorts]

It’s sounding to me more and more likely that we’ll end up with a World System of about 5 different Systems/scoring bases, with most regions trying as hard as possible to continue doing what they do now in terms of acceptable scores and methods

 

[rulefan]

Well, we take gimmes also, and still post scores as most likely. As Colin says, I expect our handicapping authorities will permit it continue as in the past - we're not going to change our 4x/week games just to suit some unwieldy handicapping requirement.

The WHS Rules also say:
A score is acceptable for handicap purposes if the round has been played:
In an authorized format of play (see Rule 2.1a) over at least the minimum number of holes required for either a 9-hole or an 18-hole score to be acceptable (see Rule 2.2),
In the company of at least one other person, who may also act as a marker (subject to satisfying any other requirements of the Rules of Golf),
By the Rules of Golf (see Rule 2.1b),

Posting scores as most likely will be net double bogey in future

 

[rulefan]

It’s sounding to me more and more likely that we’ll end up with a World System of about 5 different Systems/scoring bases, with most regions trying as hard as possible to continue doing what they do now in terms of acceptable scores and methods

The Authorised forms are the only significant variation that I have seen.