WHS abuse

[Swango1980]

If I remember correctly our handicap secretary did a similar thing, looked at the scores and recommended adjustments. The most we saw a player go up to was 33.

I think the biggest fear that was constantly raised as being an inevitability was that the club would be inundated by new golfers with a 54 handicap who would win everything. This has not been the case at all. I think I can count on my thumb the number of golfers who have been allocated an initial handicap of anything in the 50's over the past 4 years.

Even now we only have 11 golfers with an index higher than 35 (550 male members) with just three of them in the 40's. With 2 exceptions all of them are in the 60+ age bracket and all of them are seemingly steady golfers who shoot 4 or 5 shots either side of their handicap....mostly playing general play....the odd one or two showing signs of declining ability and those who do play the odd comps certainly do not have a handicap that is wrong for them that would put them at an unfair advantage.

Indeed. I think people would be surprised at how bad one would have to be, to submit scores high enough to get a 54.0 Index (Course Handicap around 60). You can get guys who, at best shoot well into the 100's, and get an Index in the 30's. We did have one guy who submitted scores and the best was well into the 120's, creeping towards 130's (CR was about 67), and his initial index was around 50. Miles higher than anyone else. Had I played him in match play, I'd be giving him 50 shots. This happened about 15 months ago I guess, and I've been away from the club for just over a year. I notice his Index is now 33.8, giving him a course handicap of 40.

 

[clubchamp98]

That doesn't really surprise me. I understand you don't play in the UK, but in my experience, our course plays at least 1 shot harder on Saturday comp day. Tees at the tombstones, harder pins, greens faster.

Yes I agree .
But I think you left one out !
Time =in social golf we can play a fourball in 3.5 hrs.
But on a Saturday a three ball can take 4.20 ( Saturday gone)
That’s a lot of standing around.

 

[wjemather]

That doesn't really surprise me. I understand you don't play in the UK, but in my experience, our course plays at least 1 shot harder on Saturday comp day. Tees at the tombstones, harder pins, greens faster.

This doesn't sound like your club are keeping the course within the required boundaries in order for ratings (and therefore handicapping) to be considered accurate.

Also, other than ensuring play is as painfully slow as possible, what do clubs think they are achieving with this kind of nonsense.

 

[clubchamp98]

This doesn't sound like your club are keeping the course within the required boundaries in order for ratings (and therefore handicapping) to be considered accurate.

Also, other than ensuring play is as painfully slow as possible, what do clubs think they are achieving with this kind of nonsense.

Do you really think it’s nonsense for a club to set the course up hard for a comp?

 

[wjemather]

Do you really think it’s nonsense for a club to set the course up hard for a comp?

Yes. It's low level amateur golf, and a practice that doesn't even happen for most elite amateur events. Of course it's ridiculous.

 

[jim8flog]

This doesn't happen with committees monitoring deleted intents, and following up invalid reasons with the player concerned.

The trouble is with somewhere like where I play the people with access to the portal do not have the time, too many other responsibilities.

 

[wjemather]

The trouble is with somewhere like where I play the people with access to the portal do not have the time, too many other responsibilities.

Between the (I assume at least) 3 of them that make up the handicap committee, they don't have (less than) one minute per week to check this report?

 

[jim8flog]

Between the (I assume at least) 3 of them that make up the handicap committee, they don't have (less than) one minute per week to check this report?

The handicap committee does not have access to the portal unless we call a meeting and one of the clubs paid officials attends who does have access.

When I used to head up the committee I would sort it out with them. Currently we do not have a head of committee, the last two resigned their post (many months ago) and we have only just had an AGM and I await the appointment of someone within the Captains Committee.

Even when I headed up the committee the member of staff responsible for admin was responsible for adminstering the changes agreed. (pre WHS when we only used IG or Cobra and the CDH)

We have the biggest membership in Dorset with two courses and somewhere between 800 and 900 members . We get over 40 GP scores a day being entered to give you some idea of the sort of problems and time involved - a bit more than a minute a week.

 

[Swango1980]

Between the (I assume at least) 3 of them that make up the handicap committee, they don't have (less than) one minute per week to check this report?

Is this the only thing they need to do, thus there is only one minutes work per week? Or, are there other things to do, such as:

• Process new member scores
• Process supplementary scores not submitted through on the tech
• Contacting / chasing members were there are issues
• Answering member questions
• Reporting to Committee
• Reviewing several other report types that WHS may provide
• etc.

The list may be hugely more extensive. When I was handicap secretary, I had many other things to do, like filing new membership forms and maintaining club records. There was a heck of a lot of chasing players who couldn't fill in a scorecard properly, with all sorts of mistakes. These issues didn't disappear with WHS, WHS just added more things to review. I also didn't have two other members to help. As far as a handicap committee was concerned, I was it. When it came to Annual Review, 2 other members on Committee became part of the "handicap committee", but they didn't actually do anything with handicaps apart from then, as they had their own responsibilities, such as finances or competitions. There were not exactly members jumping at the bit to join Committee and share the load.

That club now has one member doing 3 or 4 different roles, so much worse now.

I can only imagine my old club was not the only one in that sort of position. I'm sure there are many more that have few volunteers who try desperately to keep things going amongst other commitments in their lives.

So, I don't really get your question, as it does sound like it comes from either ignorance or arrogance. We all know what is required in a Committee ideally. But, we don't always live in an ideal world, and so some clubs might only be able to keep going in a less than ideal way. Not strictly by the book. And, the individuals involved may have significantly different commitments. Some might be able to spend hours at the club, or at home, doing things for the club. Others might only get a chance to spend time one or 2 times a month trying to keep on top of things.

 

[Swango1980]

The handicap committee does not have access to the portal unless we call a meeting and one of the clubs paid officials attends who does have access.

When I used to head up the committee I would sort it out with them. Currently we do not have a head of committee, the last two resigned their post (many months ago) and we have only just had an AGM and I await the appointment of someone within the Captains Committee.

Even when I headed up the committee the member of staff responsible for admin was responsible for adminstering the changes agreed. (pre WHS when we only used IG or Cobra and the CDH)

We have the biggest membership in Dorset with two courses and somewhere between 800 and 900 members . We get over 40 GP scores a day being entered to give you some idea of the sort of problems and time involved - a bit more than a minute a week.

Indeed, it might only take a minute to turn the computer on and open the report. I think some forget that it takes more than a minute to properly review it, and God forbid the analysis of this report leads you to think actions are required, are even might need to be considered.

 

[wjemather]

The handicap committee does not have access to the portal unless we call a meeting and one of the clubs paid officials attends who does have access.

When I used to head up the committee I would sort it out with them. Currently we do not have a head of committee, the last two resigned their post (many months ago) and we have only just had an AGM and I await the appointment of someone within the Captains Committee.

Even when I headed up the committee the member of staff responsible for admin was responsible for adminstering the changes agreed. (pre WHS when we only used IG or Cobra and the CDH)

We have the biggest membership in Dorset with two courses and somewhere between 800 and 900 members . We get over 40 GP scores a day being entered to give you some idea of the sort of problems and time involved - a bit more than a minute a week.

What?!?! This clearly isn't functional; each member of the handicap committee should have access.

Less than a minute a week refers to checking the deleted intents report. I am more than aware of everything else that needs to be done that takes much more time.

Indeed, it might only take a minute to turn the computer on and open the report. I think some forget that it takes more than a minute to properly review it, and God forbid the analysis of this report leads you to think actions are required, are even might need to be considered.

If the deleted intents report ever has more than a few entries per week, and the reason isn't self explanatory and valid, something has gone drastically wrong!!
Almost all of our deleted intents are done so via the back end (by pro shop or committee) as a result of players accidentally pre-registering for a GP score via the touchscreen when trying to enter their scores after playing in a comp (too easily done with ClubV1) - so can be quickly ignored and only the MyEG intents need to be looked at (the report details these for easy identification). We've only had one deleted intent in the past month via MyEG as a result of a player selecting the wrong tees - a score from a different set of tees was submitted by them that day, so the reason was clearly valid. So far we've only had to follow up one deleted intent because the reason entered was simply "deleted".

 

[CountLippe]

This doesn't sound like your club are keeping the course within the required boundaries in order for ratings (and therefore handicapping) to be considered accurate.

Also, other than ensuring play is as painfully slow as possible, what do clubs think they are achieving with this kind of nonsense.

Of course it can stay within the boundaries of the ratings (assuming you mean length). Stick the par 3 tee's 10 yards forward during the week to protect the back of the tee (Par 3's get the most damage), playing to middle of the green pins there's a shot a round already. I don't know of any required boundaries on pin positions or green speed.

What do they think they are achieving? Well, the course can't be prepared to its optimum condition every day, so naturally they're going to concentrate on busiest day, which is the most important (or only) round of the week for many members.

Yes, play is slower, but that is mainly down to it being a competition rather than the difficulty of the course - its not a particularly difficult course anyway.

 

[rosecott]

The handicap committee does not have access to the portal unless we call a meeting and one of the clubs paid officials attends who does have access.

I would have thought that needs to be brought to the attention of the County Authority - that seems completely unacceptable. There are different levels of access if the paid officials see full access as an issue.

 

[clubchamp98]

Yes. It's low level amateur golf, and a practice that doesn't even happen for most elite amateur events. Of course it's ridiculous.

Fair enough if that’s your opinion.
But would think most GK will disagree.
With no rough and easy pin positions is where the stupid scores are coming from.
But that’s another argument

 

[D-S]

Yes. It's low level amateur golf, and a practice that doesn't even happen for most elite amateur events. Of course it's ridiculous.

Are you really suggesting that courses don’t set up their courses differently than normal weekdays when they are hosting elite amateur events?

 

[clubchamp98]

Are you really suggesting that courses don’t set up their courses differently than normal weekdays when they are hosting elite amateur events?

Ours does .
The difference is quite striking.

 

[wjemather]

Are you really suggesting that courses don’t set up their courses differently than normal weekdays when they are hosting elite amateur events?

Courses are presented at their best (or at least that is usually the goal) but that doesn't mean stretching out and/or tricking up with dodgy hole locations. I've played plenty of events where this has happened but it isn't the norm.

 

[D-S]

Courses are presented at their best (or at least that is usually the goal) but that doesn't mean stretching out and/or tricking up with dodgy hole locations. I've played plenty of events where this has happened but it isn't the norm.

We have held a few national events during my tenure as Course Director and I have been with EG organisers as they have set up the course along with our head Greenkeeper and I can assure you that they place pin positions which would never be acceptable for normal competition. Also every course that holds these competitions ensure that their greens are as fast as they can get them for these events; there is no way on earth that courses set up for elite amateur events resemble ‘normal’ playing conditions.

 

[upsidedown]

We have held a few national events during my tenure as Course Director and I have been with EG organisers as they have set up the course along with our head Greenkeeper and I can assure you that they place pin positions which would never be acceptable for normal competition. Also every course that holds these competitions ensure that their greens are as fast as they can get them for these events; there is no way on earth that courses set up for elite amateur events resemble ‘normal’ playing conditions.

Certainly was the case for all the Senior nationals this year , wouldn't expect it any other way

 

[AussieKB]

We had someone off a 33 handicap win with 56 points yesterday, at course near me.....
I only had to shoot 16 under par to match it.