WHS Score recording system

[rulefan]

As it’s an automatic process if a delayed card from the day/days before is entered, I presume the PCC will be taken into account.

My understanding is that the PCC will be applied to the late scores but the PCC will not be recalculated for the original scores

 

[jim8flog]

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I am querying if you have forgotten what this was all about.

Ie. The possible need to have two PCCs for one day

as per 5.6/2

 

[rulefan]

If all players on the day fail to get their scores on to the computer for some reason there will be a another PCC for the day they do. So different players in the same competition could end up with a different basis for the handicap adjustment calculation.

It was this statement of yours that I was querying. I can't find anywhere this is stated.

 

[rosecott]

Let's try to unpack this.

Your club is presumably using software currently to enter scores and manage handicaps. This will normally be provided by a third party software vendor (often referred to as an ISV). This software links to the CDH systems run by England Golf. There will be WHS compliant versions of these systems for WHS go-live and so your club will presumably update their existing software to retain this functionality. Each club is required to have at least 2 touch screen terminals to allow players to enter competitions / scores etc. You would normally access your competitions to sign-in via a swipe card or index menu. The software to run this will be determined by the software the club choose. This is no different to how things are now in most cases.

Several of these vendors also offer an application which will run on a mobile phone or a PC/tablet. For example we use Club2000 V1 as our base software and they provide HowDidIDo as their members interface. This will allow members to sign-in and enter scores in competitions as will as registering aa acceptable round and enter the score after playing.

Only acceptable rounds impact handicaps and whilst it's anticipated all singles competitions will be designated as such you will have a choice to designate a round as one to count for handicap in a similar way to the way you do it for supplementary scores. Again it's anticipated this will be done on-line or through a smartphone / PC application. All acceptable scores from both members and visitors will be used in the calculation of PCC (there are some caveats).

As far as scores from abroad are concerned the answer is yes they will be integrated - but not yet! The integration will happen post WHS implementation and will use your CDH number as the key to ensuring scores are added to your playing record.

As far as away scores within CONGU are concerned the scores will come back to you home club in the usual way and your handicap committee will have to accept them (or not) as at present. Remember the scores will need to be entered at the course you played on the day you played using their screen or your smartphone / PC app so no physical cards need to be returned. This will work regardless of the software the club uses vs your home club (as now).

Hope this helps and to be fair to England Golf there is lots (and lots) of information available and there have been many briefing held to club officials over the last 12 months. I appreciate it's difficult at present but hopefully things will ease as we approach November 2nd.

I have been searching in vain to find where it is laid down that there is a requirement for at least 2 touch screen terminals. Can you point me in the right direction?

 

[Old Skier]

I have been searching in vain to find where it is laid down that there is a requirement for at least 2 touch screen terminals. Can you point me in the right direction?

That one threw me as I can’t see why apart from ease this would be necessary

 

[mikejohnchapman]

From memory it was part of the original England Golf briefings to clubs which said at least 2 should be available to members and visitors. It was certainly in the notes I took in November 2019 so it may have been in answer to a question but I destinctly remember a discussion of the availability of some grants available to clubs to get the base technology (screens) implemented.

In the FAQs the following was included:

As a club, do we need any special equipment or hardware for WHS?

Clubs must employ a system which allows golfers to register before play and return scores. Ideally, this should be via an online system. Conversion tables to allow a handicap index to be translated into a course handicap must be available in a prominent place.

Maybe it has translated to a recommendation?

 

[Old Skier]

From memory it was part of the original England Golf briefings to clubs which said at least 2 should be available to members and visitors. It was certainly in the notes I took in November 2019 so it may have been in answer to a question but I destinctly remember a discussion of the availability of some grants available to clubs to get the base technology (screens) implemented.

There was possibly still is vouchers available discounting prices. Not sure if that was Club Systems initiative for their customers though.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

From memory it was part of the original England Golf briefings to clubs which said at least 2 should be available to members and visitors. It was certainly in the notes I took in November 2019 so it may have been in answer to a question but I destinctly remember a discussion of the availability of some grants available to clubs to get the base technology (screens) implemented.

In the FAQs the following was included:

As a club, do we need any special equipment or hardware for WHS?

Clubs must employ a system which allows golfers to register before play and return scores. Ideally, this should be via an online system. Conversion tables to allow a handicap index to be translated into a course handicap must be available in a prominent place.

Maybe it has translated to a recommendation?

As I posted in other whs thread - does the opposite of requiring an online system for whs hold true? That is. If you use one to record scores then that Automatically make the score a qualifying score.

 

[rulefan]

There was possibly still is vouchers available discounting prices. Not sure if that was Club Systems initiative for their customers though.

Yes, I'm pretty sure it was Club Systems incentive

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

As I posted in other whs thread - does the opposite of requiring an online system for whs hold true? That is. If you use one to record scores then that Automatically make the score a qualifying score.

Answered on other thread...

 

[jim8flog]

It was this statement of yours that I was querying. I can't find anywhere this is stated.

I thought it would be reasonably obvious. The PCC for the day is calculated for the day based upon all scores that have been uploaded by midnight. So if one group of players has got their scores on the computer by then and the other has not each group will end up with a different PCC calculation.

This is what was advised at the workshop.

 

[rulefan]

The PCC will be applied to that days returned scores. The same PCC will be applied to the late returns. However, the late returns will not cause the original PCC to be recalculated.

That's what the note to 5.6/1 says and how it was explained to me.

 

[OldMate]

Apologies in advance for raising this again as I know it’s been discussed in the past and on various threads - does anyone know if there is any update on how/whether overseas scores are to be submitted? I will be abroad in Australia for a couple of months soon for family reasons and on past trips there I’ve sometimes entered the occasional competition (the clubs I’ve played at have allowed me to use my EG handicap index). I had assumed (at least morally) that I should be submitting these scores for handicap purposes (where they are individual strokeplay events played to the rules of golf on a measured course with slope rating etc) in relation to my EG index although the EG guidance seems to say it’s more up to the player in terms of whether to submit them as a general play rounds rather than it being a requirement and either way it doesn’t appear there is the functionality to do this in any event. Thanks

 

[nickjdavis]

Apologies in advance for raising this again as I know it’s been discussed in the past and on various threads - does anyone know if there is any update on how/whether overseas scores are to be submitted? I will be abroad in Australia for a couple of months soon for family reasons and on past trips there I’ve sometimes entered the occasional competition (the clubs I’ve played at have allowed me to use my EG handicap index). I had assumed (at least morally) that I should be submitting these scores for handicap purposes (where they are individual strokeplay events played to the rules of golf on a measured course with slope rating etc) in relation to my EG index although the EG guidance seems to say it’s more up to the player in terms of whether to submit them as a general play rounds rather than it being a requirement and either way it doesn’t appear there is the functionality to do this in any event. Thanks

Sadly at the moment the only way you can do it is to manually return them to your own club.

I've just played an open in Scotland and had to manually return my cards to my club each night (4 rounds).

 

[OldMate]

Sadly at the moment the only way you can do it is to manually return them to your own club.

I've just played an open in Scotland and had to manually return my cards to my club each night (4 rounds).

Thanks Nick. I guess if the card clearly shows the slope/CR etc that’s enough for my home club to work with as I assume the system doesn’t yet have details of every course in the world logged yet…

 

[rulefan]

Thanks Nick. I guess if the card clearly shows the slope/CR etc that’s enough for my home club to work with as I assume the system doesn’t yet have details of every course in the world logged yet…

"The system" is currently a series of disjointed systems. However the USGA or R&A Course Rating databases have worldwide course ratings
https://ncrdb.usga.org/
https://www.randa.org/worldhandicapsystem/Lookup

 

[nickjdavis]

"The system" is currently a series of disjointed systems. However the USGA or R&A Course Rating databases have worldwide course ratings
https://ncrdb.usga.org/
https://www.randa.org/worldhandicapsystem/Lookup

The course ratings may be in the USGA and R&A databases but the courses still need to be set up in the relevant handicapping authorities database for you to be able to return a score for that course.

I had to set up the courses I played at myself in the England Golf/Dot Golf system before I travelled. The problems are that...

1) there is no instruction as to how to do this
2) there is no oversight to this process and anyone with access to the DotGolf system can add a course and put in CR and Slope details without it being checked by anyone else. There seemingly is no function by which you can delete a course that is obviously wrong.

What this results in is different people trying to add courses and you potentially end up with several entries for a course without knowing which is really valid.

 

[rulefan]

2) anyone with access to the DotGolf system can add a course and put in CR and Slope details without it being checked by anyone else.

How many ordinary players have access to this facility I wonder?

 

[wjemather]

How many ordinary players have access to this facility I wonder?

Not many. However, there are far too many people who do have access having only been provided with EG's hopelessly inadequate documentation/guides (if they have even seen them) and zero training. As a result they have (and will continue to) input incorrect and duplicate information - ranging from basic typos to wildly inaccurate ratings.

 

[rulefan]

Not many. However, there are far too many people who do have access having only been provided with EG's hopelessly inadequate documentation/guides (if they have even seen them) and zero training. As a result they have (and will continue to) input incorrect and duplicate information - ranging from basic typos to wildly inaccurate ratings.

I agree. I have access as a player, h'cap committee and county adviser. I have had absolutely no guidance. I haven't dared experimenting to see what I can do in the different guises.