What's Wrong with our Education System?

[Dave3498]

Kids leaving school unable to read and write properly doesn't bother me at all, but I am bothered by those in our society who are given the advantage of the best education system that money can buy, and still turn out to be idiots with no common sense. I refer of course to our so-called 'experts.' Those who let dangerous criminals our early to commit more crimes, those social workers who cannot looks after and protect our children, those financial experts who preside over monetary meltdown, our politicians who give multi-million pound orders to companies that are not up to the job, our judges who like to administer a slap-on-the-wrist to paedophiles, our government departments who simply put problems in the hands of those other 'experts' by setting up working-parties or a study-groups full their ex-university coleagues.

Am I the only one who thinks that it is a waste of time voting for our polititians when we are, in fact, governed by all these anonymous non-elected experts who make all the rules by which we have to live? Can anyone name any of the European Commissioners? Can anyone name any of the Bank of England Monetary committee. Can anyone name any of the members of the National Institute for Clinical Excellence who stop us getting the drugs that our contributions to Cancer Research have paid for?

I don't know who the hell all these people are, but I do know that they invariably come up with the answers that we, the general public, don't like, but have to foot the bill for.

 

[Imurg]

Alas Dave, you have made the usual mistake.

Common Sense is anything but common!! It is in fact a very rare commodity.

My Dad hit the nail on the head 35 years ago. He saw all this coming and his favourite phrase then and now :-
"We're breeding a Race of Inadequates"

Education can be seen as an easy way out. I know several people who have trained to be Teachers purely because you get long holidays - what the ****???

I don't know any of the answers. Its all gone too far to pull it back to a sensible level.

 

[RGuk]

"Those who let dangerous criminals our early to commit more crimes, those social workers who cannot look after and protect our children, those financial experts who preside over monetary meltdown, our politicians who give multi-million pound orders to companies that are not up to the job, our judges who like to administer a slap-on-the-wrist to paedophiles, our government departments who simply put problems in the hands of those other 'experts' by setting up working-parties or a study-groups full their ex-university colleagues.

I know where you are coming from....it is quite frightening.

I'm not so sure that things are greatly different from how they have always been though; incompetence and a failure to "stand up and be counted" has always been with us.
What annoys me is the conspiracy of silence that exists everywhere today, folk too paranoid about their own existence to go the extra mile and chuck out the dead-wood.

Almost everyone I know is aware of incompetence and worse still, a lack of moral integrity in people who could be doing so much more for the good of society. My best mate pulled all his money out of shares 18 months ago saying that "the **** would hit the fan" sooner or later; He knew what was coming, how come nobody else (the government) came clean and admitted to failures in the financial systems until so recently. I fear it is the same in politics and certainly local government; the few good people (and there are some) tend to keep their heads down and get on with their jobs, there's no point (is there?) in trying to hold back the tide of fools that are making such a hash of so many important issues.

Rambling, I realise, but it's late and the bottle's finished.

 

[viscount17]

I fear it is the same in politics and certainly local government; the few good people (and there are some) tend to keep their heads down and get on with their jobs, there's no point (is there?) in trying to hold back the tide of fools that are making such a hash of so many important issues

does the phrase 'promoted beyond their level of incompetence' ring any bells? or the fact that it is virtually impossible to sack a civil servant for incompetence (something that not a few unions have enshrined).

the truth is that the good people who are prepared to speak out get nowhere. they are denigrated, derided and most certainly are not promoted.

 

[billyg]

Human nature in it most basic state (ala Darwinism) is entirely in opposition to the artifice of humanitarian political philosophy - look at somewhere like Nigeria for a reasonable example.*

It could be argued that the existence of anything approaching a civilised society is therefore remarkable.

The battle between outright anarchy and a utopian, transparent and equitable democracy is in constant flux and variables like disasters, malevolent leaders and creeds when set against pockets of altruism, intelligent and well-meaning groups and individuals and a general (if uneven) rise in standards of living leads me to think that;-

It could be a whole lot worse

(For most of us)It could only ever be marginally better

If you put the good majority of GMers on a line with every other human on the planet we don't come out half bad in terms of the basics of life - food, shelter, healthcare, security and life expectancy.

Im not making excuses for the failings of our system or that we should strive for the reasonable best that is possible but I for one count my blessings.

BillyG

* anyone watching the documentary on witch doctors in the provinces of Nigeria last night would struggle to equate the images with what passes for anything approaching our daily lives. Sadly these people are doomed and such an utterly unremitting state of complete and utter hopelessness they face daily is something that most of won't encounter- no matter how bad the recession.

 

[forefortheday]

Spot on BillyG!

My favourite phrase in work is.....

At least you don't have to walk 3 miles to get water while lions try to bite your face!

Yes there are things wrong with our country but there is a whole lot more that's right

 

[RGuk]

Human nature in it most basic state (ala Darwinism) is entirely in opposition to the artifice of humanitarian political philosophy - look at somewhere like Nigeria for a reasonable example.*

It could be argued that the existence of anything approaching a civilised society is therefore remarkable.

The battle between outright anarchy and a Utopian, transparent and equitable democracy is in constant flux and variables like disasters, malevolent leaders and creeds when set against pockets of altruism, intelligent and well-meaning groups and individuals and a general (if uneven) rise in standards of living leads me to think that;-

It could be a whole lot worse

(For most of us)It could only ever be marginally better

If you put the good majority of GMers on a line with every other human on the planet we don't come out half bad in terms of the basics of life - food, shelter, healthcare, security and life expectancy.

Im not making excuses for the failings of our system or that we should strive for the reasonable best that is possible but I for one count my blessings.

BillyG

* anyone watching the documentary on witch doctors in the provinces of Nigeria last night would struggle to equate the images with what passes for anything approaching our daily lives. Sadly these people are doomed and such an utterly unremitting state of complete and utter hopelessness they face daily is something that most of won't encounter- no matter how bad the recession.

Intelligent and eloquent.....true.....

 

[Dave3498]

You're right billyG. But just because there are societies worse than ours, doesn't mean that we shouldn't strive to improve our own. I come back to my basic point about education. Why is it that having gone through the best education system that money can buy, (and most of them don't have to worry about money) these people then call themselves experts and start making rules by which we all have to live, even though those rules are not thought through, and in many cases are plainly wrong? The experts who presided over the current financial crisis are the very same people who appear on our TV sets every night, giving us the solution, as they see it. Similarly, those expert social workers who propped up the failing system, are the very ones now telling us where everything went terribly wrong with Baby P.

It seems to me that there are too many people with power and no responsibility.

 

[viscount17]

It seems to me that there are too many people with power and no responsibility.

Dave, can I rephrase that

'there are too many people with power who accept no responsibility, and equally too many who have responsibility but no power'

 

[madandra]

I was standing in the doctors waiting for my wife's presription last week and this girl/lifeless grunter came to the counter to get the results of her pregnancy test. She was asked if she wanted to go into a room but she just wanted the result, so, the receptionist said her test was POSSITIVE to which she replied

Am I up the duff AYE or NAW??

I dispair !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[medwayjon]

Too many liberals, do-gooders and hippy-types in positions of power and influence.

As cartman would say "I hate godamm hippies"

 

[Herbie]

Well in my view todays society is as responsible for the education system as well as the authorities.

We have had progressively lower standards in many areas yet instead of admission we have deception claiming higher standards and results throughout the education system.

General education general knowledge is poor and the basics are missing in many areas of education.

Values in the home and family have fallen, high expectations rarely come from the parents, more a demanding results from this deteriorating system. The high expectations come from the kids and they have had a jolly good time over the last couple of decades getting everything they want for simply existing.

Then there is the deterioration of the family model itself, those that have mum and dad find mum and dad at work 24/7 those that have disfunctional family have a job finding their parents at the best of times.

Who would have thought that after the victorian age or before that we would have ferral kids in this country?
Everyones home is filled with toys and junk and little of substance. Machines deal with the education, the nurture,the valuable time, the growth and mind development of children, to mention a few of the aspects of life missed by modern parents sometimes to the point where a nintendo or ps2-3 or 99 becomes a surrogate parent. the internet moulds and controls young people as well as immature adults more often in negative ways than positive.

Then these people later find themselves in positions of influence and authority simply because of choice, if there is a pile of crap to choose from you only ever end up with the best piece of crap!(if you are lucky)

No working family is willing to admit that their kids have been raised by a bunch of babysitters, a ps2 and the internet, then guided down the avenue of media studies for a diploma and the chance to see their kids in a mortar board, in the hope it catches on.

The best way to learn just how much of a childs life you miss is to home educate, that way most modern families would have their eyes opened wider than they can cope with.
I thank MS for opening my eyes and seeing just what others are missing. Years ago families were educated by the family, worked with the family and were cared for by the family, in those days literacy levels were higher than today, skill levels were higher, knowledge was wideranging being spread from elders through the extended family unit.
Now learning is handed over by families, kids go to a place they dont really want to be day after day and are forced to take on behavior and habbits of their peers, good or bad, and occasionally learn a lower standard of just about everything.There will always be exceptions and those that shine above others but its not the norm.

Anyway Ive said enough for now but I could go on forever on this one.
There is a need for and room for old values working in todays world and for me its about time they came back.

 

[dangermouse]

The "experts" are led to believe they are bright though, through a system of rewarding failure throughout the education system.

My wife was marking her GCSE maths mock exams at the end of last year to the official mark scheme (as with most schools, they use the previous year's exam). 30% was enough for a C (presumably so as not to offend the dim/lazy kids who couldn't be bothered to work hard for a decent grade)

But people are getting brighter, honest guv!

 

[Herbie]

The "experts" are led to believe they are bright though, through a system of rewarding failure throughout the education system.

My wife was marking her GCSE maths mock exams at the end of last year to the official mark scheme (as with most schools, they use the previous year's exam). 30% was enough for a C (presumably so as not to offend the dim/lazy kids who couldn't be bothered to work hard for a decent grade)

But people are getting brighter, honest guv!

I agree and something I forgot to mention about the education system (got tired of sounding off.lol.)is the utter frustration teachers suffer and have suffered under this crappy system. Many who want to teach are demoralised, abused, even assaulted, Im sure your missus gets feelings of wasted effort.

 

[Dave3498]

I take on everything you say Herb, but I'm asking the question about those in our society who have had the advantage of the very best education and still turn out to be idiots. They have been to Prep' School, Public School, Oxbridge, become lawyers or economists. They go into government either by joining a political party or by joining a government department through the old-boy network, and then start making stupid, un-necessary rules by which we have to live, and pay for. Things like Home Information Packs, etc.

 

[Herbie]

I take on everything you say Herb, but I'm asking the question about those in our society who have had the advantage of the very best education and still turn out to be idiots. They have been to Prep' School, Public School, Oxbridge, become lawyers or economists. They go into government either by joining a political party or by joining a government department through the old-boy network, and then start making stupid, un-necessary rules by which we have to live, and pay for. Things like Home Information Packs, etc.

I follow what you say Dave but I believe that even in the great learning institutions today there is a shortfall in standards, many may disagree but I see what you clearly see regarding all those positions you speak of, maybe its just a channelling a blinkered focus and limiting the individuals ability to have wider ranging knowledge, I dont know but I do know that common sense is no longer experienced in high office in this day and age.

 

[Herbie]

One additional point about the great learning institutions is aimed mainly at todays students.
Years ago all you heard them get up to was protesting about some eco disaster/ famine/ miners/ political agendas and the like, but in recent years so many protests by students have been about themselves and what they think they deserve or need. Its a measur eof todays culture to me, I want Iwant, gimme gimme.

 

[Cernunnos]

Society is the problem with society.

And the common have no common sense, infact many of the uncommon have little understanding of the lack of common sense in the common & this lacks commonsense.

But Disipline & PC to the common is the problem & root of the problem with the education system as a whole, where if we cannot teach a child what is wrong, then how can that child, now a young adult themselves teach a child something is wrong, when they still don't understand right & wrong themselves.

So the do-gooders who have no real understanding of the common, who pampered to the Eastenders watching, X Factor entering common, with no common sense & even less morral standads, could be forgiven for not understanding the problem before their eyes.

Now this maybe a knee jerk reaction, but when I was at school the cane was good enough for my generation even as a threat than actually applied to make us understand right from wrong, to see what we should be doing & what we dare not. When we were young a clip round the ear was a clip round the ear, & being sent to your room till you learnt your lesson & said sorry was enough.

But of course the parents of my generation also understood right from wrong & what was & wasn't too much. Something lacking in todays young parents in general. So no suprise is it that what is now happening in scociety is happening.

Who have we got to blame for letting society get like it is, only ourselves for getting too politically correct, too soft on a generations of our children that needed guidance, not free reign to answer their betters back without correction. But correction tempered with understanding of moral standing of what is the done thing & what clearly shouldn't & what is too far.

This is the thing about society today, & what we need to re-achieve, but as to how & have things already gone too far to correct, who knows.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Wow, round of applause for finding a 10yr old thread

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Wow, round of applause for finding a 10yr old thread

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