What is a fair suspension ?

[Doon frae Troon]

I find it strange that a Club President would get embroiled with a member at that level.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Final request
We do not want the clubs name published
Please desist

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

So you just let people walk all over you even if it puts you a few hundred pounds out of pocket?? That's not the 'right thing to do' in my book.

It's nothing to do with letting people walk all over me. It's about understanding what is best for me in the long-run - putting aside any short-term satisfaction I might get...

A few years I was moved off an assignment (I was effectively sacked from that assignment) and the rationale of the boss responsible was I felt to be extremely unfair and unmerited. Indeed it seemed to me at the time that the impact of being 'sacked' would be very significant and that as well as the extreme upset I felt, I considered that I had to leave the company. I spoke with the HR Director and she agreed that the way the situation was handled was unacceptable - and she agreed that I had grounds for going down the constructive dismissal route. However I reflected on the implications of doing so. On how going through such a process would impact me personally and my family, and what would I benefit from doing so - and by leaving the company.

In the end I decided to take on board the criticisms and understand my part in what had happened - because the victim of such an injustice often has had a part to play, even though that part might be tiny and not justify what happened. I just accepted being 'sacked' and put it behind me. I was able to move to another part of the company and just got on with life. I hold no resentments whatsoever against the boss who 'sacked' me - because I did not pursue retribution. And in the years since, my company has been extremely supportive to me through some very difficult personal times.

If someone chooses to walk over me and I can do little or nothing to prevent that, then I can, through acceptance and other means, find the strength that means there is no impact on me beyond the knowledge that someone has felt they have gained something - but I have not suffered any long term damage or built up any resentments or guilt - and can get on with life.

 

[Orikoru]

It's nothing to do with letting people walk all over me. It's about understanding what is best for me in the long-run - putting aside any short-term satisfaction I might get...

A few years I was moved off an assignment (I was effectively sacked from that assignment) and the rationale of the boss responsible was I felt to be extremely unfair and unmerited. Indeed it seemed to me at the time that the impact of being 'sacked' would be very significant and that as well as the extreme upset I felt, I considered that I had to leave the company. I spoke with the HR Director and she agreed that the way the situation was handled was unacceptable - and she agreed that I had grounds for going down the constructive dismissal route. However I reflected on the implications of doing so. On how going through such a process would impact me personally and my family, and what would I benefit from doing so - and by leaving the company.

In the end I decided to take on board the criticisms and understand my part in what had happened - because the victim of such an injustice often has had a part to play, even though that part might be tiny and not justify what happened. I just accepted being 'sacked' and put it behind me. I was able to move to another part of the company and just got on with life. I hold no resentments whatsoever against the boss who 'sacked' me - because I did not pursue retribution. And in the years since, my company has been extremely supportive to me through some very difficult personal times.

If someone chooses to walk over me and I can do little or nothing to prevent that, then I can, through acceptance and other means, find the strength that means there is no impact on me beyond the knowledge that someone has felt they have gained something - but I have not suffered any long term damage or built up any resentments or guilt - and can get on with life.

Being sacked by your boss is a bit different to being denied membership privileges that you've paid for.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Being sacked by your boss is a bit different to being denied membership privileges that you've paid for.

Agreed but if that had been me I would definitely sought legal advice and considered the constructive dismissal route. If I have been processed through something like a capability programme and then dismissed then fine, but if wasn't gross misconduct or done correctly then I'd have fought it. Pretty sure my family would have backed me too

 

[Blue in Munich]

How do the other members of the club feel about the issue you are taking to court? Is this a one man crusade, a small group of you, or are your feelings representative of a good number of members?

Depending on where you sit on that scale will have a big impact on whether returning to the club is realistic. I'd think winning a prerequisite for being able to return, but even then, if it's a one man crusade, I'm not sure the other members are going to be particularly chuffed about the cost and hassle that the club will go through as a consequence.

Also, if it's a private members club, are they obligated to continue your membership? Continuing to be a member might not be within your control.

Equally there may be a number of other members feeling much the same as the OP and are hoping for a win to make the President's position untenable, but who, for whatever reason, are unwilling to pick up the cudgel themselves and so are consequently keeping quiet.

Not saying your view is right or wrong, just looking from an alternative viewpoint.

 

[Blue in Munich]

I seem to remember members at a club I was at putting something taking the proverbial out of the club or an official on YouTube. I'm fairly sure that the suspension they got was considerably less than 3 months.

Given the amount of abuse I was expected to take in a previous occupation before I was allowed to be offended by it, I'm amazed that if there was abuse on both sides that the club has followed this through. The old rule used to be that you bollock them or put them the book but never both; the club here seems to be doing both. If it can be proved that the President was equally or similarly abusive, I would hope any decent committee would have started on a reconciliatory route from the off.

 

[TigerTime]

This is one side of joining a club I am not looking forward to, the politics and drama

 

[Beezerk]

This thread is GOLD.

This will be my daily dose of popcorn for a while yet. A good few Perry Mason's here.

Who needs Netflix subscription when you have threads like this ?

 

[Orikoru]

This is one side of joining a club I am not looking forward to, the politics and drama

It's not like this happens all the time.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

This is one side of joining a club I am not looking forward to, the politics and drama

This is exceptional. Join a club, play golf, make friends, socialise after a round, go home. It is what happens 99.9% of the time.

The politics of a club, on the whole, only tend to affect you if you go looking for them.

 

[Grant85]

Personal view is that the club have issued a suspension, almost certainly hoping that you would just leave. Ultimately a suspension used to be a harsh penalty when clubs had big joining fees and waiting lists as members would have no choice by to sit it out or give up golf. Many clubs might also ask for a reference from your previous club upon joining. Now a days, you could probably join another club this week and be playing by the weekend.

I also think if you have called the president or committee member a liar, that is not on at all. If it got to that stage and you didn't trust the word of the club president, then you have to sit on your hands or leave and go to another club.

People on committees tend to do a lot of things at clubs voluntarily and yes, some people do it just cause they like being involved and like a little bit of authority, but in the main, these are well meaning people trying to do their best for the club and collectively save clubs money on salaries of managers / staff, who would otherwise have to do these jobs.

All clubs I've been at have done things I haven't agreed with. Occasionally I'll state my case, but as I am not in a position to get involved with joining the committee or putting in the hours, I accept that I let them get on with it.

With regards to paying fees during lockdown - assuming your clubs runs an annual subscription only - rather than a monthly subscription - then members should pay up. That's certainly what I did as it clearly wasn't the clubs fault we were closed and there is no way I'd have a club to go back to now if all members withheld a quarter of their fees for the lockdown period.

 

[Blue in Munich]

This is exceptional. Join a club, play golf, make friends, socialise after a round, go home. It is what happens 99.9% of the time.

The politics of a club, on the whole, only tend to affect you if you go looking for them.

Possibly the truest post on here, although I think it is fair to add that you have to look harder at some clubs than at others.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Personal view is that the club have issued a suspension, almost certainly hoping that you would just leave. Ultimately a suspension used to be a harsh penalty when clubs had big joining fees and waiting lists as members would have no choice by to sit it out or give up golf. Many clubs might also ask for a reference from your previous club upon joining. Now a days, you could probably join another club this week and be playing by the weekend.

I also think if you have called the president or committee member a liar, that is not on at all.

If it is not true, fair enough, but if he is a liar, why would that be not on to state as much?

If it got to that stage and you didn't trust the word of the club president, then you have to sit on your hands or leave and go to another club.

People on committees tend to do a lot of things at clubs voluntarily and yes, some people do it just cause they like being involved and like a little bit of authority, but in the main, these are well meaning people trying to do their best for the club and collectively save clubs money on salaries of managers / staff, who would otherwise have to do these jobs.

All clubs I've been at have done things I haven't agreed with. Occasionally I'll state my case, but as I am not in a position to get involved with joining the committee or putting in the hours, I accept that I let them get on with it.

With regards to paying fees during lockdown - assuming your clubs runs an annual subscription only - rather than a monthly subscription - then members should pay up. That's certainly what I did as it clearly wasn't the clubs fault we were closed and there is no way I'd have a club to go back to now if all members withheld a quarter of their fees for the lockdown period.

Edmund Burke's quote comes to mind here...

"All that is required for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing."

 

[Canary_Yellow]

Equally there may be a number of other members feeling much the same as the OP and are hoping for a win to make the President's position untenable, but who, for whatever reason, are unwilling to pick up the cudgel themselves and so are consequently keeping quiet.

Not saying your view is right or wrong, just looking from an alternative viewpoint.

How is saying exactly what I said an alternative viewpoint?

 

[Neil Grice]

Equally there may be a number of other members feeling much the same as the OP and are hoping for a win to make the President's position untenable, but who, for whatever reason, are unwilling to pick up the cudgel themselves and so are consequently keeping quiet.

Not saying your view is right or wrong, just looking from an alternative viewpoint.

Just me at the moment but feeling is I am not a lone voice. Club Pro has just resigned and I am told disquiet abounds, This is however hearsay only.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Being sacked by your boss is a bit different to being denied membership privileges that you've paid for.

Indeed the two situations are very different - however how you can deal with both is identical.

I suggest that if you can deal with getting (unfairly) sacked without seeking retribution or recompense then you can deal with the OPs issue and the potential 'loss' of a few hundred pounds. It's all about dealing with life...and the things that life throws up.

 

[Orikoru]

Indeed the two situations are very different - however how you can deal with both is identical.

I suggest that if you can deal with getting (unfairly) sacked without seeking retribution or recompense then you can deal with the OPs issue and the potential 'loss' of a few hundred pounds.

Sorry, I just see them as totally different scenarios so I don't think your analogy meant anything. But I don't want to go on about it for too long so let's leave it.

 

[clubchamp98]

I seem to remember members at a club I was at putting something taking the proverbial out of the club or an official on YouTube. I'm fairly sure that the suspension they got was considerably less than 3 months.

Given the amount of abuse I was expected to take in a previous occupation before I was allowed to be offended by it, I'm amazed that if there was abuse on both sides that the club has followed this through. The old rule used to be that you bollock them or put them the book but never both; the club here seems to be doing both. If it can be proved that the President was equally or similarly abusive, I would hope any decent committee would have started on a reconciliatory route from the off.

Exactly this .
But some people seem to think they are judge and jury once given a modicum of power.
If the ops account is accurate and the abuse was from both sides , it shows the comittiee isn’t up to the job imo.
When both sides are at fault you can’t just punish one.

 

[clubchamp98]

This is one side of joining a club I am not looking forward to, the politics and drama

Just don’t call the President a liar.