What is a fair suspension ?

[jim8flog]

Is the suspension reasonable? is open to interpretation. Where I play one member got himself thrown out of the club for alleging financial impropriety without having the evidence to back it up.

 

[jim8flog]

Also worth noting- whilst you are suspended you do not have a handicap.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

But the op said he called the president a lair and used colorful language so why would you assume it was civil?

I missed that bit

 

[Mandofred]

This is a soap opera quality thread .....I love it. I should feel guilty, but I don't.

Short of threatening somebody, I just can't see a 3 month ban. If I had a disagreement with the head honcho......even if a bit extreme.... sits way too much with the old boys club mentality. A reasonable person would just tell you to knock it off or xxxxx will happen. Repeated offenses after a warning......then I could see the ban. Keeps coming back to my opinion about way too many golfers having thin skin. It's just golf.....it's just a game.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Also worth noting- whilst you are suspended you do not have a handicap.

Interesting, even though he is a fully paid up member and has paid county subs?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

They are charging you for a service that they are stopping you using, I would be surprised if that’s legal.

I think we covered this at the time and I can't really remember if there was any end decision. The club would argue that you have committed to being a member of the club for 12 months, you have agreed to pay the fees. What happened, Covid, would then be looked at as exceptional circumstance and they are within their right to expect people to continue to pay. If you don't then they could go after you, problematic and perhaps costly, but at the minimum you would cease to be a member and they could blacklist you going forward.

 

[Ethan]

I am not a lawyer, but I would have thought that a small claims court could be sympathetic and consider both the refusal to adjust subs and the refusal to release the letter as unreasonable. It may turn out that the letter from the lawyer to the club could be more of the 'give it a go' nature rather than 'you are on solid legal ground'. As for the email, it depends whether you called someone a bloody liar or whether you said you found it hard to believe that the lawyer would so advise.

I assume if you are taking legal action, that sounds to me like an acceptance that you will not stay a club member. I don't see how you could after taking legal action, so you might need to consider other fees, like the joining fee.

 

[hovis]

So basically, you said a nasty word to someone important and threw his toys out the pram? I hate this golf club "masonic" culture

 

[jim8flog]

Interesting, even though he is a fully paid up member and has paid county subs?

Basic CONGU rule to have a CONGU handicap you must be a member of a club. Whilst a member is suspended they are not a member of that club.

 

[robinthehood]

I think we covered this at the time and I can't really remember if there was any end decision. The club would argue that you have committed to being a member of the club for 12 months, you have agreed to pay the fees. What happened, Covid, would then be looked at as exceptional circumstance and they are within their right to expect people to continue to pay. If you don't then they could go after you, problematic and perhaps costly, but at the minimum you would cease to be a member and they could blacklist you going forward.

Post no longer makes sense.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Basic CONGU rule to have a CONGU handicap you must be a member of a club. Whilst a member is suspended they are not a member of that club.

I would argue against that, if I'm suspended but been told that I still have to pay my subs then I think that makes me a member.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

I would argue against that, if I'm suspended but been told that I still have to pay my subs then I think that makes me a member.

Yeah, you're a member who isn't allowed to use the clubs facilities

 

[Bdill93]

Be aware that if a DD or other regular payment scheme is set up to pay your annual membership fee in instalments, then it is quite possible that you remain liable for the full amount that is outstanding if you choose to leave. If membership is on a month-by-month basis (unlikely) then that liability may not apply.

My course is monthly, cancel when you want, and they didnt take payments through lockdown/ course closure. We're really going for the inclusivity approach and "get people into golf" and manage to do well with the system we have! But I do appreciate not every club is the same!

 

[patricks148]

can we refrain from naming the club please, if there is legal action pending Thanks

 

[Grizzly]

But if the club are citing a legal document as justification for their actions then they should let members see it imo.
If you asked and was refused that’s poor.

It is, and I may be missing the point somewhat here, but I am not actually all that sure what the relevance of seeing the letter is. In a legal dispute, you would surely want your OWN legal advice, rather than just accepting legal advice given to the other party as being fact - in any ongoing dispute, it would be for a court to determine the correct interpretation, not the club's advisors, so seeing what was in the letter is largely meaningless.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

This isnt a unique issue, I know members at other clubs that are annoyed with the clubs stance during lockdown and general theme of taking members for granted.
*** is a nice enough course, the sort of place that 30 years ago you'd have to wait or someone to die before getting a chance being a member.

I fully understand the point, we covered it a lot at the time. It was tough for clubs and members, I was putting the clubs, general, side of things forward to give a little balance to the point that clubchamp was making. His point is entirely fair but we would have lost a good number of clubs had that actually happened en masse.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

My course is monthly, cancel when you want, and they didnt take payments through lockdown/ course closure. We're really going for the inclusivity approach and "get people into golf" and manage to do well with the system we have! But I do appreciate not every club is the same!

Indeed - one way to aim for inclusivity. I deliberately kept my post general - but I suspect that OP's club is a full membership club - and not of the pay-by-month category. Without looking it might be.

 

[GB72]

It is, and I may be missing the point somewhat here, but I am not actually all that sure what the relevance of seeing the letter is. In a legal dispute, you would surely want your OWN legal advice, rather than just accepting legal advice given to the other party as being fact - in any ongoing dispute, it would be for a court to determine the correct interpretation, not the club's advisors, so seeing what was in the letter is largely meaningless.

I am assuming that this is a private members club. My argument would be that if the committee sought legal advice on a matter, they ware doing so on behalf of the membership. As such there should be a duty to disclose that advice that the members have, after all, paid for.

 

[Bdill93]

Indeed - one way to aim for inclusivity. I deliberately kept my post general - but I suspect that OP's club is a full membership club - and not of the pay-by-month category. Without looking it might be.

I have to be honest, its working wonders for us! But yes, does sound like his club take a stronger approach than mine. Kind of one of the reasons I like my club so much, its nothing special but they do all they can to ensure members are happy and looked after - and we have the cheapest green fees in the City!

 

[Orikoru]

I certainly wasn't suggesting that. You crack on, as me personally I couldn't careless if you say the club name or not.

Was thinking more about the fact you said you don't wish to leave the club.

Surely that ship has sailed though.