What does Tiger's win say about golf?

[Deleted member 1147]

Let’s be honest, Tiger is unlikely to win a lot of tournaments, especially majors.
But, he is a master at getting low scores when not playing well, and at making errors in the least bad places.
As such, he will always have a chance on tough courses, just like he’s always did.
Also, He will peak for the biggest events and he now knows he has it in him to compete.
As a golf fan I love it!
...hopefully when I see him at Portrush he’ll be at his peak again and I’ll see some great golf from him and the rest of the elite field 🤞

 

[User20205]

Phil its just peoples opinions, In many ways it would be fantastic to see him sweep the board again, the only negative thing I can see is the resulting wall to wall media coverage Tiger this, Tiger that etc

However if you ask anyone in the street to name just one golfer, they will answer Tiger Woods, because he is a household name, famous the world over, miracle recovery, bad boy done good etc
To Joe Public, Tiger is Golf

And I dont think he is going away any time soon

Again??? It’s never been done, which makes it a piping hot take 🥵 🔥 I’m genuinely interested in how he goes, but no one knows what this means for golf. He may never win again, he may smash jacks record, even tiger doesn’t know

 

[sunshine]

Look at where Tiger has been most prolific: Firestone, Muirfield Village, Torrey Pines, Bay Hill - All courses where you have to hit fairways because hitting greens is tricky from the rough.
He has always been the best at getting a ball around a course, often on the trickiest courses.
So I don't think the hardest, tightest courses will be his issue. It will be the easier, wide open courses where scores in the 20's under par will be where he misses out most.
Personally I would think his best chances of wins will be at major championships, largely due to course set up.

Also the best iron players would prefer long par 3's, not 150-170 yds. As all of the field should be good with a wedge, it's the long irons where the likes of Tiger, Rose etc will excel.

Well said. Some actual thought.

Quite a bit of drivel so far on this thread, especially the poster who thinks that Tiger did well because Augusta is short.

 

[Hobbit]

Let’s be honest, Tiger is unlikely to win a lot of tournaments, especially majors.
But, he is a master at getting low scores when not playing well, and at making errors in the least bad places.
As such, he will always have a chance on tough courses, just like he’s always did.
Also, He will peak for the biggest events and he now knows he has it in him to compete.
As a golf fan I love it!
...hopefully when I see him at Portrush he’ll be at his peak again and I’ll see some great golf from him and the rest of the elite field 🤞

Bearing in mind the number of wins he's had I'm inclined to say he can win on just about any course, or at least he could at his prime. He may well get on a roll again but, equally, who knows how good his body is at present.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Bearing in mind the number of wins he's had I'm inclined to say he can win on just about any course, or at least he could at his prime. He may well get on a roll again but, equally, who knows how good his body is at present.

I agree, he could win anywhere if playing well. But for me, Tiger’s biggest strength has been outlasting his opponents on tough courses. Limiting mistakes and managing his rounds.

 

[TheDiablo]

I'm also confused by there isn't a premium in putting at Augusta comment. There's a massive premium on putting more so than any other part of the game because if you are out of position with your approach you need almost genius level ability to read a putt and commit to a line,. Then there's the speed control of the putt to factor in on those greens. Look at Woods putt on the 9th on Sunday alone that could have gone almost off the green and down the slope about 40 yards if he had so much as over paced that putt by 12inches.

Grant is right, Augusta requiring a premium on putting is a myth perpetuated by lazy journalism in an age where we have statistical data showing otherwise.

The best ball strikers of the week win, not the best putters. Its a second shot golf course with a huge premium on approach play, way more than any other single part of the game.

Putting is perceived as important because its what gets shown the most and the narrative that's driven by the media.

Last year, Kisner was the best putter yet finished 15 shots back. In 2015, DJ was the best driver AND best putter and still finished 9 back.

Obviously you aren't going to win putting like an amateur, but that applies to every tournament.

 

[User20204]

because Augusta is short.

It's that short they had to lengthen it this year to only 8130 yards.

In regards Tiger's accuracy and length, he was 48th in driving length and 46th in accuracy off the tee or other way round, can't quite remember and was 1st in greens hit in regulation.

 

[Grant85]

One of the biggest premiums at Augusta is putting ?! Seriously to suggest it’s not a premium is quite staggering - the reason why Molinari challenged was his outstanding putting and then Woods putting in the last round was superb even when in poor positions- take that two put on 9 I think it was , prob the best two putt all day

I have searched long and hard for some strokes gained stats for the Masters. The PGA tour do have them, but they seem not to be published or easily available for a single tournament.

BUT you don't need the stats to know that Tiger did not putt all that well. Certainly not better than many other players in the field. He holed very little of much significance over the whole week. His win came almost wholly from one attribute - approach play, that was phenomenal and I'd say almost certainly better than anyone in the field.

Yes - his putt on 9 was great, but it was still a 2 putt. Likewise his birdies on 13 and 15. His birdie on 16 was a tap in (made by the approach). All of these were putts that most guys in the field (certainly those who made the cut) would have made the same number as Tiger from.

The putt on 9 was good, very good. But Poulter and Koepka had putts in the previous group - not as difficult but still very tricky downhillers across the side slope of the green. Both guys put it to within 3 feet and made par. So his great putt isn't gaining anything on the field.

The thing with Augusta is the pins are often on little shelves (and on Sunday actually a lot are in nice little collection areas - 16 & 18 being clear examples). These big greens where most guys could hit the middle of easilly - but when you have to hit a much smaller green within a green, a great approach yields a great birdie chance. A poor approach is still a GIR, but likely a long birdie try that the tour players will likely all 2 putt (no real benefit to being a great putter if you are 30 foot away - the difference then for the great putter is a 1 foot par putt or a 3 foot par putt.

Obviously a guy who putts his light out and holes a few 20 footers each day is going to gain hugely on the field, but for Augusta I'd rather back a great iron player than a great putter.

Players still needed to put the ball in the right place on the green but that’s not always that easy - also just look at DJ and Koepka on the last , both with makable putts and both missed

Yes - but Tiger missed almost the exact same putt for his par!

 

[Grant85]

Also, He will peak for the biggest events and he now knows he has it in him to compete.

Completely agree with this. He has shown to be a master of this in the past year.

I know he won the Tour Championship, but it was a small field. After that tournament he has barely looked like putting many decent rounds together.

But being in contention at the Open (should have won it) and the PGA (not much he could have done about Brooks, albeit he made a mess of 17) and then piecing together 72 holes at the Masters is hugely impressive.

Would be very interesting to know what his practice routine is now compared to 15 or 20 years ago and if he is genuinely trying to peak for the big events, or doing similar prep for each event.

 

[sunshine]

I would be very surprised if he wins a US Open. A US Open is going to be too penal off the tee.

I was of the view, especially after last year, that he could win and can obviously contend, but probably wouldn't be low enough over 4 days to win another major and was also running out of time at the age of 43. Obviously wrong on that front in that he could win and was low enough.

But also that if he did get a win, then it would be Augusta. Wide targets off the tee and there isn't really the premium on putting - very much about ball striking to land on the small shelfs of the large greens.

If the Open was at St. Andrews this year, then I'd say he'll be there or there about. Portrush - don't know enough about the course. If it's firm and fast and irons are in play off 15 or 16 tees, then that will suit him massively. Especially as he will have the discipline to hit iron. If it's wet and windy, then probably going to be too many other players in the mix.

Maybe Bethpage Black will suit him, but it will also suit a lot of other top players - Brooks, DJ, Rory, JT etc.

Also - the guys who have won 3 of 4 majors in the same year have been by far the dominant player. Woods in 2000/01 and Hogan in 1953.
Woods 2019 is good, but he's not dominant and still needed a lot of things to happen on Sunday to win the Masters.

Hahahaha

This post has caught a few people. Obviously a wind up. No premium on putting at Augusta, lol.

 

[Parsaregood]

I have searched long and hard for some strokes gained stats for the Masters. The PGA tour do have them, but they seem not to be published or easily available for a single tournament.

BUT you don't need the stats to know that Tiger did not putt all that well. Certainly not better than many other players in the field. He holed very little of much significance over the whole week. His win came almost wholly from one attribute - approach play, that was phenomenal and I'd say almost certainly better than anyone in the field.

Yes - his putt on 9 was great, but it was still a 2 putt. Likewise his birdies on 13 and 15. His birdie on 16 was a tap in (made by the approach). All of these were putts that most guys in the field (certainly those who made the cut) would have made the same number as Tiger from.

The putt on 9 was good, very good. But Poulter and Koepka had putts in the previous group - not as difficult but still very tricky downhillers across the side slope of the green. Both guys put it to within 3 feet and made par. So his great putt isn't gaining anything on the field.

The thing with Augusta is the pins are often on little shelves (and on Sunday actually a lot are in nice little collection areas - 16 & 18 being clear examples). These big greens where most guys could hit the middle of easilly - but when you have to hit a much smaller green within a green, a great approach yields a great birdie chance. A poor approach is still a GIR, but likely a long birdie try that the tour players will likely all 2 putt (no real benefit to being a great putter if you are 30 foot away - the difference then for the great putter is a 1 foot par putt or a 3 foot par putt.

Obviously a guy who putts his light out and holes a few 20 footers each day is going to gain hugely on the field, but for Augusta I'd rather back a great iron player than a great putter.




Yes - but Tiger missed almost the exact same putt for his par!

Putting stats can be misleading, you really have to look at the strokes gained stats to get the real picture. If you miss a green and get up and down it's a one putt, inevitably your chip is going to be somewhat close, if you hit lots of greens you are going to have lots more 2 putts, to look at the putting stat alone is foolhardy

 

[Grant85]

Putting stats can be misleading, you really have to look at the strokes gained stats to get the real picture. If you miss a green and get up and down it's a one putt, inevitably your chip is going to be somewhat close, if you hit lots of greens you are going to have lots more 2 putts, to look at the putting stat alone is foolhardy

I’m well aware and that’s why I referenced strokes gained stats.

 

[Grant85]

Hahahaha

This post has caught a few people. Obviously a wind up. No premium on putting at Augusta, lol.

Quite simply, you are wrong.

Tiger won the masters putting no better than ok. didn’t make any mistakes but didn’t tramline many and was certainly not better than the field at putting.

He won on his ball striking.

 

[Parsaregood]

Quite simply, you are wrong.

Tiger won the masters putting no better than ok. didn’t make any mistakes but didn’t tramline many and was certainly not better than the field at putting.

He won on his ball striking.

But how can you say his putting is no better than ok when you haven't seen the strokes gained stats ? You are including guys who are missing greens and either putting from off the green or chipping in your stats. The argument isn't a fair assessment

 

[Dan2501]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1115968006352453632

Thought this was interesting. Again highlighting that SG Approach is the most important area at Augusta.

 

[Parsaregood]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1115968006352453632

Thought this was interesting. Again highlighting that SG Approach is the most important area at Augusta.

I would say stats prove that better than average is required in all areas tbh

 

[Grant85]

But how can you say his putting is no better than ok when you haven't seen the strokes gained stats ? You are including guys who are missing greens and either putting from off the green or chipping in your stats. The argument isn't a fair assessment

I know exactly how SG works and I can guess what the stats will show when we can find them. I've never referenced number of putts etc. I realise completely the flaw in that stat.

The stats from the Masters will show Tiger as:
SG Approach 1st.
SG Off the tee - middle of the pack. (par 3 play might bring this up for him).
SG putting as middle to lower end of the pack.
SG tee to green probably top 3.

I would say putting is far more important on courses with flatter greens where people will have makeable birdie putts from 15 to 20 feet. Over 72 holes the best putters will make their advantage tell and the average putters will be a few strokes worse off.

 

[Grant85]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1115968006352453632

Thought this was interesting. Again highlighting that SG Approach is the most important area at Augusta.

Very good Dan.

So the Masters winner is much better at approach play and can afford to be poorer at putting AND still win.

So really, there isn't a premium on putting, compared to the average tour event - which has more of a premium on putting.

 

[Parsaregood]

Very good Dan.

So the Masters winner is much better at approach play and can afford to be poorer at putting AND still win.

So really, there isn't a premium on putting, compared to the average tour event - which has more of a premium on putting.

10th in putting is way better than average my friend

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Also important to remember that good putting isn't only about holing putts. Excellent lag putting is critical as well, I should know (I'm crap at it)!