What does Tiger's win say about golf?

[TheJezster]

Tiger played well and deserved the win in the end. I felt sorry for Molinari, but once he was out of it, I felt it would be quite nice if Tiger could win.

What is evident is that unlike several years ago and before, there are a much bigger pool of ELITE golfers to chose from, people of similar-ish ability who on any given week could win.

This wasn't the case in Tigers prime and one of the reasons why the big names of yesterday won so much, they really were head and shoulders above the rest. Tiger forced golf to change, people HAD to up their games, and we've seen that.

Nowadays the top golfers will be considered a who's who of future hall of famers... Tiger, Rory, DJ, Rose, Spieth, Day, Scott, Thomas, Phil, Koepka etc and that's without mentioning the likes of Garcia, Rahm, Bubba, Dechambeu and Fowler. All of these and many more are more than capable of winning majors, and will probably take a few more each too.

Yes its possible someone could blow them all away and raise the bar again by winning say 6 of 8 majors, but I'd say it's highly unlikely..

It's a much bigger field of incredibly strong and good golfers. Tiger is still amongst the mix of people capable of winning.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Why Does it have to say anything about the state of the game.

Tiger doesn't win people write threads saying is he past it, Tiger does win people write threads complaining bakut state of the game. All this proves is Tiger isn't past it and even though he isn't at his all time best it shows his game and mindset is still good enough to compete and intimidate at the top of a major leaderboard. As for state of the game it's probably never been healthier there's a huge depth in the amount of players able to compete for majors now and at the very top of the world rankings but now they get a chance to to do it against 1 of the all time greatest golfers to play the game.

Who has written a thread complaining about the state of the game?

In my original post I posed a question for debate. How is that a complaint?

 

[IanM]

says lots about Tiger.... his dedication, his will to win and the sheer resilence of the bloke!

Doffs hat!

 

[User62651]

Doesn't say anything, -13 is a good score because greens were slow but worse than Reed, Speith, Schwartzel, Mickelson totals in recent times.
Woods is world no.6 now so clearly had form heading into this event.
Not a shock at all.

 

[clubchamp98]

I think it shows how the mental side of the game impacts on even top players.
They all have all the shots they need .
But they control their nerves differently and I think Tiger did this better than anyone else that’s why he won.

Great to have him back winning ,it’s good for golf!

 

[Scozzy]

Back in the glory days is was quite obvious to everyone that tigers "b" game was still perfectly good enough to beat anyone.Now "b" is as good as it gets for the great man and this week on a course he knows it was just that,good enough.Still a massive leap to 18 but maybe... just maybe...was great viewing tho wasn't it?

 

[Papas1982]

Tiger played well and deserved the win in the end. I felt sorry for Molinari, but once he was out of it, I felt it would be quite nice if Tiger could win.

What is evident is that unlike several years ago and before, there are a much bigger pool of ELITE golfers to chose from, people of similar-ish ability who on any given week could win.

This wasn't the case in Tigers prime and one of the reasons why the big names of yesterday won so much, they really were head and shoulders above the rest. Tiger forced golf to change, people HAD to up their games, and we've seen that.

Nowadays the top golfers will be considered a who's who of future hall of famers... Tiger, Rory, DJ, Rose, Spieth, Day, Scott, Thomas, Phil, Koepka etc and that's without mentioning the likes of Garcia, Rahm, Bubba, Dechambeu and Fowler. All of these and many more are more than capable of winning majors, and will probably take a few more each too.

Yes its possible someone could blow them all away and raise the bar again by winning say 6 of 8 majors, but I'd say it's highly unlikely..

It's a much bigger field of incredibly strong and good golfers. Tiger is still amongst the mix of people capable of winning.

I don't go along with this line of the players not being as good when he was at his peak. Apparently they were great when Jack won, they're great now, but weren't as good when Tiger was around. How is that quantified?

Lots of the players you ementioed as top. Players may finish with 1 or no majors. Is that because there were too many good golfers around or because they simply weren't as good as people thought?

For me now. If tiger manages to win a second major in this stage of his career it'll blow the theory of them all being better now outn9fbthebwater as he'll have won more in his twilight than some of the supposed better players managebin a career.


Re the op. I think it simply says golf is in a very fortunate place where we get to watch more good players than ever before. Whether that's based on the increase of ability or coverage is up for debate.

 

[User20204]

I don't go along with this line of the players not being as good when he was at his peak. Apparently they were great when Jack won, they're great now, but weren't as good when Tiger was around. How is that quantified?
.

Agree with that 100% To say that the likes of Ernie Els or Monty or Mickelson or Duval and many others were mugs is quite frankly rubbish. Now it can be said that the current crop are better overall but lets look at some Major winners since Tiger has been outside the Major winners circle. Kymer/Bubba/Schwartzel/Dufner/Bradley/Simpson/Clarke non of them are really any better than the aforementioned so lets stop kidding ourselves that Tiger won playing against jackasses and todays lot are the best there has ever been, cause it's not factually correct.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Agree with that 100% To say that the likes of Ernie Els or Monty or Mickelson or Duval and many others were mugs is quite frankly rubbish. Now it can be said that the current crop are better overall but lets look at some Major winners since Tiger has been outside the Major winners circle. Kymer/Bubba/Schwartzel/Dufner/Bradley/Simpson/Clarke non of them are really any better than the aforementioned so lets stop kidding ourselves that Tiger won playing against jackasses and todays lot are the best there has ever been, cause it's not factually correct.

Kaymer and Watson both have more majors than Duval and Monty - both in tough courses

How about the likes of Curtis , Hamilton , Glover , Beem , Micheel , Campbell , Ogilvy , Goosen - winners whilst Woods was around and he was going head to head with the likes of KJ Choi , Chris Di Marco

There is always going to be players who have one comps.

It’s near impossible to judge but when I look at the leaderboards in majors or the list of odds - it’s a lot longer list than I remember during the 00’s - normally it was Woods , then Mickelson with Els and Singh - Monty was really the sole European challenging

Now - Rory , Spieth , Thomas , DJ , Rose , Koepka , Fowler , Rahm etc etc

Anytime the Ryder Cup or the Presidents Cup comes around it’s always the strongest teams in a generation

Then look at the 80’s and see all those top quality Europeans playing winning majors

I think right now it looks like the strength in depth is greater than I have seen - Woods played against top quality in the 00’s but there seems to be more top quality right now

 

[Papas1982]

Kaymer and Watson both have more majors than Duval and Monty - both in tough courses

How about the likes of Curtis , Hamilton , Glover , Beem , Micheel , Campbell , Ogilvy , Goosen - winners whilst Woods was around and he was going head to head with the likes of KJ Choi , Chris Di Marco

There is always going to be players who have one comps.

It’s near impossible to judge but when I look at the leaderboards in majors or the list of odds - it’s a lot longer list than I remember during the 00’s - normally it was Woods , then Mickelson with Els and Singh - Monty was really the sole European challenging

Now - Rory , Spieth , Thomas , DJ , Rose , Koepka , Fowler , Rahm etc etc

Anytime the Ryder Cup or the Presidents Cup comes around it’s always the strongest teams in a generation

Then look at the 80’s and see all those top quality Europeans playing winning majors

I think right now it looks like the strength in depth is greater than I have seen - Woods played against top quality in the 00’s but there seems to be more top quality right now

I looked into this a while ago. A lot of the players that Jack played against had massive overlaps. Certain stars at the end of careers as well as having other greats included as they played prior to his 86 win. So by that token all the new greats you’ve mentioned should be considered as players Woods has beaten in his career as his major span includes them now.

Let’s not forget he also got to World no 1 in 2014 a time when Rory, rose, bubba Scott had already win majors. With Woods it’s always “he’s a great player, but”....

I wonder what it takes to maybe cut that last but out. Getting to World no1 again, winning a 16 major? Winning 83 events. For me, the discussion of greatest golfers (not nicest) has two contenders. With another few in the group below. Currently I wouldn’t include any of the current stars until the third tier.

 

[User20204]

The point is, it's easy to be clouded by recent times, much like the Jack V Tiger debate or Arnie V Jack. Not sure if OWGR were around back then but I guess most of those competing for the top prizes were probably coming from within the top 20 in the world.

Other recent major winners haven't tore it up either though, Danny Willet, Jimmy Walker, ever JT, despite his place in the top of the game has only won one. Oosthuizen, McDowell, again I'll name Schwartzel and Darren Clarke and with respect to Bubba and his two major wins do you really believe he's a better player than Els or Mickelson or Vijay and I certainly don't believe Kymer is either.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The point is, it's easy to be clouded by recent times, much like the Jack V Tiger debate or Arnie V Jack. Not sure if OWGR were around back then but I guess most of those competing for the top prizes were probably coming from within the top 20 in the world.

Other recent major winners haven't tore it up either though, Danny Willet, Jimmy Walker, ever JT, despite his place in the top of the game has only won one. Oosthuizen, McDowell, again I'll name Schwartzel and Darren Clarke and with respect to Bubba and his two major wins do you really believe he's a better player than Els or Mickelson or Vijay and I certainly don't believe Kymer is either.

It’s not always about just winning once it’s also about constantly challenging - DJ and Rose have only won once but are always there challenging , Oosthuizen has also challenged for more than one , same with players like JT even McDowell.

How many other majors did players like Hamilton challenge for ? Or Beem or Micheel or Campbell

No one has said the likes of Kaymer were better than Mickelson or Els

But right now you could say there would be at least 10 to 20 players realistically who will challenge

During the 2000’s beyond Woods you had Els and Singh who actually won and Monty early on but didn’t win - most of the other majors won where by people who didn’t hang around so each major it was always Woods vs Mickelson or Els

 

[Papas1982]

It’s not always about just winning once it’s also about constantly challenging - DJ and Rose have only won once but are always there challenging , Oosthuizen has also challenged for more than one , same with players like JT even McDowell.

How many other majors did players like Hamilton challenge for ? Or Beem or Micheel or Campbell

No one has said the likes of Kaymer were better than Mickelson or Els

But right now you could say there would be at least 10 to 20 players realistically who will challenge

During the 2000’s beyond Woods you had Els and Singh who actually won and Monty early on but didn’t win - most of the other majors won where by people who didn’t hang around so each major it was always Woods vs Mickelson or Els

Tbf Phil it’s all just conjecture.

Imo if his peak had been the last 10 years, Then it would have looked very similar. We’d be talking about McIlroy, Spieth, Rose getting one or 2 majors with lots of the others getting none. He was that good.

Of course we can’t prove it either way.

 

[User20204]

It’s not always about just winning once it’s also about constantly challenging - DJ and Rose have only won once but are always there challenging , Oosthuizen has also challenged for more than one , same with players like JT even McDowell.

How many other majors did players like Hamilton challenge for ? Or Beem or Micheel or Campbell

No one has said the likes of Kaymer were better than Mickelson or Els

But right now you could say there would be at least 10 to 20 players realistically who will challenge

During the 2000’s beyond Woods you had Els and Singh who actually won and Monty early on but didn’t win - most of the other majors won where by people who didn’t hang around so each major it was always Woods vs Mickelson or Els

That argument could be labelled at Jack, he beat an ageing Arnie and only Player and latterly Watson, other than those, Jack had a free run essentially yet there aren't many out there saying Jack had it easy. As said above, it's all conjecture.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Tbf Phil it’s all just conjecture.

Imo if his peak had been the last 10 years, Then it would have looked very similar. We’d be talking about McIlroy, Spieth, Rose getting one or 2 majors with lots of the others getting none. He was that good.

Of course we can’t prove it either way.

During 2010-2013 - Woods was winning comps , getting to number one etc - how many majors did he win ? Rory did win two in that time and others who are still challenging now won also

Woods still had to beat some quality players to win his majors but the amount when looking back to that era seems small

Right now seems the strongest fields I have ever seen in majors

 

[Papas1982]

During 2010-2013 - Woods was winning comps , getting to number one etc - how many majors did he win ? Rory did win two in that time and others who are still challenging now won also

Woods still had to beat some quality players to win his majors but the amount when looking back to that era seems small

Right now seems the strongest fields I have ever seen in majors

I agree to an extent that the pool of players now may be better. I simply feel that the Golf he played at his peak would still have beaten the best there is know.

Look how good spieth looked when he had one year putting stupidly well. Woods had that for 5 years. With a better all round game.

Imo he unsettled Molinari yesterday. Both rose n Rory have looked nervous during big moments too. I would think his biggest contenders would be spieth, dj and koepka if you took em all at peak.

 

[User20204]

Right now seems the strongest fields I have ever seen in majors

Again I think you may be clouded by the weekends board, that was unquestionably the highest level of player in any major I can ever remember but it's not been like that for all of them in the past few years.

I simply feel that the Golf he played at his peak would still have beaten the best there is know.

.

100% at his peak, no one, in any era at any time could've lived with him, he was untouchable and to suggest that those around today would have makes me think that someone's memory is fading more than they think.

 

[Hacker Khan]

It says golf still needs him as there would not have been a 100th of the posts, tweets and newspaper coverage if Webb Simpson would have taken the green jacket.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

The thing is, with Woods having done what a lot of people including some of his peers probably thought he could never do and win another major, means that if he's there or thereabouts on the back nine of a Sunday people will be looking for him and worried if and when a charge will come. That is simply human nature and perhaps intensified in Woods case by his previous dominance. It may put a few off and like Molinari, a few may make poor decisions going for flags when the middle of the green will do. If and it is a big if, Woods can follow this quickly with another win somewhere, it really will set alarm bells going in some players minds. I think a lot of the current crop have perhaps never really experienced a fit and determined Woods in full flow and so it will be a learning experience for them

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Tiger played within himself, something he should have done much earlier in his career.
He used good strategy [club selection,ball placement] and made very few mistakes.

If club golfers adapted to his style they would knock many shots off their scores.