Universal Credit

[GB72]

Just a spot of hope for those struggling. Wife has had a hard time of this. She is a health and safety contractor. As she was a director of her own company, she missed out on self employed relief and so could only furlough herself on her basic pay without dividends so, basically, about £500 a month. Still, with a bit of tweaking here and there and after 4 months, she has just got a job back at the level and salary she was on before so all good now. It has taken 4 months of hard work to get there though.

As for the house thing, I feel too many expect to start out in their dream home in their dream place. Back in the late 90s, I could not afford what I wanted so I moved around, making a little on each property after a couple of years until I could get the place I wanted, where I wanted. Started in a little 1 bed Q home in not the best area and moved up steadily from there.

 

[PJ87]

I empathise with anyone who is struggling. I struggle to sympathise with those who potentially could get themselves out of a situation, or at least try to, but opt not to.

Whilst I agree , it was a poorly handled start to the furlough in the sense the gov semi lock down.. advised people to avoid shows etc meaning people didnt get refunds etcs because the theatres were open.. but also they said right all PAYE are furlough etc , took a few weeks to sort out self employed. His son might have been In a bit of limbo if they were going to get help or not

 

[PJ87]

As for the house thing, I feel too many expect to start out in their dream home in their dream place. Back in the late 90s, I could not afford what I wanted so I moved around, making a little on each property after a couple of years until I could get the place I wanted, where I wanted. Started in a little 1 bed Q home in not the best area and moved up steadily from there.

I find people still do the same

Certainly in my circles

All starter houses in areas they didn't really want etc

 

[Slab]

Although in a different country, during lockdown I ran payroll almost normally from home each month and the only impact was they had to wait to get printed payslips till the office reopened. Strange your sons employers could not or chose not, to do this

I wonder how many ppl in the UK fall into this scenario of not being paid a salary by current/past employers for several months

 

[GB72]

Although in a different country, during lockdown I ran payroll almost normally from home each month and the only impact was they had to wait to get printed payslips till the office reopened. Strange your sons employers could not or chose not, to do this

I wonder how many ppl in the UK fall into this scenario of not being paid a salary by current/past employers for several months

This had me a but confused as well. The furlough scheme made payments to the company and companies paid their staff as normal from my understanding. There was no restriction on companies carrying out administrative duties and furloughed staff were only stopped form doing work that made money for the firm. As such, all payroll activities should carry on as normal.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Although in a different country, during lockdown I ran payroll almost normally from home each month and the only impact was they had to wait to get printed payslips till the office reopened. Strange your sons employers could not or chose not, to do this

I wonder how many ppl in the UK fall into this scenario of not being paid a salary by current/past employers for several months

I hope SILH doesn't mind me answering this but I believe his son was not an employee. He was a self employed contractor. They hire him to do a job, he invoices for it, they pay the invoice. The problem is they chose not to pay him until recently rather than months ago when it was due.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Whilst I agree , it was a poorly handled start to the furlough in the sense the gov semi lock down.. advised people to avoid shows etc meaning people didnt get refunds etcs because the theatres were open.. but also they said right all PAYE are furlough etc , took a few weeks to sort out self employed. His son might have been In a bit of limbo if they were going to get help or not

This is correct - he had no idea what the situation was going to be - the money he is owed was as self-employed...

 

[Slab]

I hope SILH doesn't mind me answering this but I believe his son was not an employee. He was a self employed contractor. They hire him to do a job, he invoices for it, they pay the invoice. The problem is they chose not to pay him until recently rather than months ago when it was due.

You know i kinda wondered that when I was typing but in the OP he talks about his son being made redundant and employment work etc, which you wouldn't expect to hear used for a contractor because they are not an employee & don't have employee rights (not that it gets him his cash)

But notwithstanding his status, I still paid the company invoices & bills all throughout lockdown too, from rent for offices we didn't use though to broadband and utilities plus the seasonal/casual labour I was using, all paid online and we're by no means a large company or cash rich. And since I don't believe there was any UK Gov announcement/instruction telling businesses to cease or hold payments due to be paid out to contractors or other suppliers for goods, services or work done, it must mean the businesses have done this to him off their own backs

(although I'm not sure where his sons 'employers' have now found funds to pay him that they didn't have 4 months ago, its not like gigs are back)

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I hope SILH doesn't mind me answering this but I believe his son was not an employee. He was a self employed contractor. They hire him to do a job, he invoices for it, they pay the invoice. The problem is they chose not to pay him until recently rather than months ago when it was due.

This is correct. He invoiced but for whatever reason and with everything shut down he got nowhere getting his invoice paid. Whether the business chose to not pay him, or whether they felt they were not able or even allowed to pay him he does not know.

Bottom line is that the company still has not paid him, though he is hopeful, and he is now in debt with no means of repaying it if his UC is cut according to the amount of payment of his invoice coming in - if and when it eventually does.

Separately a company he was employed by (quite separate from his self-employed work) has said they will pay him the couple of hundred pounds they owe him for his work before the lockdown and he was furloughed and before he registered for UC (he is on zero hours with them and that is pro rata). They have also said they'll pay him for holiday he was due but had not taken. His understanding is that his UC will be knocked down for that also. Again - payment he was was due and had earned. And if when he registered for UC he had been asked if he was due any monies coming in and told the impact on anything he might qualify for then he might have waited. But then he'd still be waiting.

It's really rubbish. If you have up to £6k - or to a less extent between £6k and £16k, in savings, then the circumstances my lad finds himself in brought about by the lockdown might not hurt you that much if you have to claim UC. Besides you have some savings to fall back upon. But when you have no savings and depend upon income at the end of one month to live the next it's really grim.

 

[GB72]

As a self employed contractor, was there not an entitlement to government payments based on past earnings as an alternative to the furlough scheme. My wife missed out on that as she was technically an employee of her own company and so she could only claim furlough payments based on what she had paid herself as salary and not dividends. Still, she knew the risk of that set up (even greater with the changes to IR35 next year) and so she had made sure that that she kept funds aside to cover a period where she could not find her next contract.

That said, this is a conversation my wife and I had before she became a contractor as there was always the risk that the next contract may be some time in coming. She always agreed that, if she did not have enough funding behind her to pay what would be her wages, she would be working in pubs, supermarkets etc until the next contract came in.

Sadly, as a contractor, you have to be prepared for what you are going to do if there is a period without a new contract. Experience has shown me that there can be a number of very lean months even without a pandemic and, despite how much my wife wants to keep on as a contractor, she has realised that now is not the time to be doing it.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You know i kinda wondered that when I was typing but in the OP he talks about his son being made redundant and employment work etc, which you wouldn't expect to hear used for a contractor because they are not an employee & don't have employee rights (not that it gets him his cash)

But notwithstanding his status, I still paid the company invoices & bills all throughout lockdown too, from rent for offices we didn't use though to broadband and utilities plus the seasonal/casual labour I was using, all paid online and we're by no means a large company or cash rich. And since I don't believe there was any UK Gov announcement/instruction telling businesses to cease or hold payments due to be paid out to contractors or other suppliers for goods, services or work done, it must mean the businesses have done this to him off their own backs

(although I'm not sure where his sons 'employers' have now found funds to pay him that they didn't have 4 months ago, its not like gigs are back)

This may be the case. But as the businesses may have had very little cash in the bank and zero income they could just try and string things out. Unfortunately the popular music events and nightclubs business is not known to be the most caring towards those it employs either as employees or as contractors.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

As a self employed contractor, was there not an entitlement to government payments based on past earnings as an alternative to the furlough scheme. My wife missed out on that as she was technically an employee of her own company and so she could only claim furlough payments based on what she had paid herself as salary and not dividends. Still, she knew the risk of that set up (even greater with the changes to IR35 next year) and so she had made sure that that she kept funds aside to cover a period where she could not find her next contract.

That said, this is a conversation my wife and I had before she became a contractor as there was always the risk that the next contract may be some time in coming. She always agreed that, if she did not have enough funding behind her to pay what would be her wages, she would be working in pubs, supermarkets etc until the next contract came in.

Sadly, as a contractor, you have to be prepared for what you are going to do if there is a period without a new contract. Experience has shown me that there can be a number of very lean months even without a pandemic and, despite how much my wife wants to keep on as a contractor, she has realised that now is not the time to be doing it.

All true but this was not lack of work, this was payment for work done. Besides. The government could tweak the UC system if it so wanted.

 

[Slab]

This may be the case. But as the businesses may have had very little cash in the bank and zero income they could just try and string things out. Unfortunately the popular music events and nightclubs business is not known to be the most caring towards those it employs either as employees or as contractors.

In one sense it sucks that this delayed 'wage' will impact the UC and he missed out on the opportunity to call it 'savings'
on the other hand would he have ever had the opportunity to do that even if they had paid him within 28 days of him submitting his invoice?

From what I read as soon as he applied for UC any income after that date may impact the UC amount so unlike a salaried employee it means that the last invoice he submitted was always going to have a potential impact to UC even if they paid out after just a couple of weeks

 

[Lord Tyrion]

This is correct. He invoiced but for whatever reason and with everything shut down he got nowhere getting his invoice paid. Whether the business chose to not pay him, or whether they felt they were not able or even allowed to pay him he does not know.

Bottom line is that the company still has not paid him, though he is hopeful, and he is now in debt with no means of repaying it if his UC is cut according to the amount of payment of his invoice coming in - if and when it eventually does.

In terms of the part in bold it is either point one or two. Three is not a factor, you can rule that out. The reality is it is point one. They will have prioritised their payments and sadly your son has been bounced down the line. The annoying thing is that he is not yet able to take them to the small claims court as the govt has put a hold on that for the time being, or it certainly had. That has allowed companies to avoid paying bills with no options for those owed money to force their hand. It will be worth him checking to see if that has been changed and if so he needs to fill in a form online and get the ball rolling. It is simple to do, if allowed again.

 

[drdel]

This may be the case. But as the businesses may have had very little cash in the bank and zero income they could just try and string things out. Unfortunately the popular music events and nightclubs business is not known to be the most caring towards those it employs either as employees or as contractors.

I apologise if my recollection is wrong but didn't you raise the issue of your son's income last year and posters advised then that he needed to consider a change from the 'arts' field as it was an unreliable industry of feast and famine?

 

[chrisd]

All true but this was not lack of work, this was payment for work done. Besides. The government could tweak the UC system if it so wanted.

His only complaint then is with those that owe him the money for work invoiced. The government has nothing to do with his problem

 

[GB72]

All true but this was not lack of work, this was payment for work done. Besides. The government could tweak the UC system if it so wanted.

What I mean is that, on the face of it, there was no need for universal credit in the first instance. Being self employed meant that there would be a claim under the furlough scheme based on up to 80% of prior earnings which could be claimed when the current contract ended and it was clear that there was not a further work opportunity coming. As for universal credit, I am not in full agreement. This month he has money coming in and so does not warrant money from the government. Universal credit is meant to put food on the table not deal with debt issues etc, there are other avenues for that.

 

[jim8flog]

I'm 33 and I think this is what my 3rd recession? Their suppose to be once in your career.

,?

I would love to know where that idea came from I am in my late 60s and financially due to world and UK circumstances my life has been an absolute roller coaster.

From Wilson's " the pound in your pocket" to the current financial crisis.

 

[chellie]

I apologise if my recollection is wrong but didn't you raise the issue of your son's income last year and posters advised then that he needed to consider a change from the 'arts' field as it was an unreliable industry of feast and famine?

Yes, you are right and also again this year. Apparently it's all someones elses fault he has no money

 

[Wolf]

Yes, you are right and also again this year. Apparently it's all someones elses fault he has no money

Your forgot it was the year before as well. So been going on for nearly 3 years but every time it's been lack of support from government at fault instead of any self reflection ??‍