Universal Credit

[chrisd]

Pensions were a lot better for sure. My father recently retired from royal mail who ruined his pension.. he was due to get nothing. He tracked down an old pension from when he worked in London .. bear in mind that was 1994 he left that job .. wasn't there that long maybe 10 years? The pension is enough combined with his royal mail one to bring his earnings to just above what he was being paid with royal mail. He isn't even 65.. so doesnt include his state pension either.

You wouldn't get that now at all.

I am very fortunate.. but I still don't trust what the government will do to pensions in the future. I pay AVCs to boost my already final salary pension just incase they ruin it in 30 years. Many people wouldn't be able to afford to shove money into a pension and AVCs plus afford to live.

Zero hour are great for certain people but that should be limited to students working through uni, people who want flexibility etc. The whole gig economy that's been set up is terrible .

Would like to see the gov back more apprenticeships.. discourage people from unis. Unless you need a degree for your career.. like a Dr .. we need far more tradesmen and other careers ofc who people could learn a trade and earn good money without crippling debt just because "uni life" is the done thing.

Will discourage my girls from uni unless needed. My wife has a degree doesn't use it. I don't have a degree I left at 16 (after my paper round) apprenticeship and never been unemployed since.. don't think one of My friends thought my decision was a good one to turn down the 6th form at My old school. Yet only one of them is paid more than me now but all of them have a huge debt to their name (which one day the gov could say to a bank count it against them for a mortgage imo).

Going back to the future unless my girls become doctors or bankers or something I don't see them owning houses for a long time and only way they could get the deposit is either a grant from the bank of mum and dad or inheritance from the bank of nan and grandad. Which is a depressing thought.

Honestly Paul I dont think that you can use one pension example and claim it represents the whole. I didn't start to contribute to a pension until the early 1980's and lost a lot of it in the recession of the late 80s when my employer went bust, although I started my own business in 1990 I still never managed a pension that I could wholly live on.

I agree that Uni is a waste for a huge number and that many would be better without the debt and a pretty worthless degree. My son did as you suggest and left school and went to work and now earns more than I could ever have dreamt of.

Zero hour contracts are useful to a range people, where I work everyone is on zero hours and no one has issues with that and no one has lost out as far as I am aware.

I know house buying is difficult but too many that I know want holidays abroad, flash cars, expensive lifestyle AND to buy a house - you couldn't do it back in my day and you cant now either, and the "Bank of mum and dad" was not opened back then!

 

[Lord Tyrion]

They let people carry on working but could claim the grant

For example the guy who did my loft could have claimed (dunno if he did) but he restarted working in may after finishing April as finished a job rather than leave it half done.. yet he will have earned at the same time

Nothing to stop anyone doing that as you don't know if your work might be effected like somebody might cancel a job as they now can't afford it etc

If at the end your in a better position for it you don't have to give it back!!

When covid hit we took a mortgage holiday incase but the overtime went through roof and I cleared enough to save a nest egg and get a new car .. couldn't have planned that though didn't know if tfl was going bust one min!

Yes, the self employed could keep working if they could whilst getting govt money still. Slightly odd decision but this was decision making on the hoof, trying to help as many as possible, as quickly as possible. They could have made the rules stricter, got them to be justified better but it would have taken months to process and many would have gone bust, had no money to live on.

When you have a catch all scheme there are bound to be some who win more than they should, it is the price to pay to help so many others.

 

[PJ87]

Honestly Paul I dont think that you can use one pension example and claim it represents the whole. I didn't start to contribute to a pension until the early 1980's and lost a lot of it in the recession of the late 80s when my employer went bust, although I started my own business in 1990 I still never managed a pension that I could wholly live on.

I agree that Uni is a waste for a huge number and that many would be better without the debt and a pretty worthless degree. My son did as you suggest and left school and went to work and now earns more than I could ever have dreamt of.

Zero hour contracts are useful to a range people, where I work everyone is on zero hours and no one has issues with that and no one has lost out as far as I am aware.

I know house buying is difficult but too many that I know want holidays abroad, flash cars, expensive lifestyle AND to buy a house - you couldn't do it back in my day and you cant now either, and the "Bank of mum and dad" was not opened back then!

The bank of mum and dad is only open because house prices have become so stupid that parents can afford it now. For example when my parents moved to their current house in 1996 they paid 120k now it's worth 750k. That is truly mental. Then they can play the mortgage game to have a low mortgage against the LTV of the house. Think they ended up with an interest only mortgage of £120 a month with financial investments paying out when the mortgage was due to cover the mortgage. That's basically living rent free £120 that's completely nothing a month for housing

You couldn't do that now at all

I'm glad we agree on degrees. 70% of them in my opinion are a waste of time and money. I'll use my wife as an example she got a degree to become a teacher, but just become a teaching assistant and never moved up because she saw how teachers are treated and how much they have to do in unpaid work so just thought teaching assistant is come in, go home work. She has this debt now that the gov will write off at age 50 is it? Can't remember but gets written off .. massive debt to society all these unpaid loans

I agree with the cars leasing is too easy now for sure.. it has been promoted to push up another industry the car makers. Do we need that many new cars a year made? Prob not . But people think oh X amount a month is a good price I can afford this and then it's only X amount more for the flasher car.. it is pathetic when you see the kids round here in there a class mercs .. not one of them can actually afford

 

[PJ87]

Yes, the self employed could keep working if they could whilst getting govt money still. Slightly odd decision but this was decision making on the hoof, trying to help as many as possible, as quickly as possible. They could have made the rules stricter, got them to be justified better but it would have taken months to process and many would have gone bust, had no money to live on.

When you have a catch all scheme there are bound to be some who win more than they should, it is the price to pay to help so many others.

Fully agree that the scheme was right in what it did.. brought help in asap. And your neighbour for example. He may have needed the cash as his buisness may have been affected but then wasn't in the end.. it happens. We didn't know how bad it would get. He has every right to use that money to do what he wants .. it will be taxed out of him next year anyways so it's not just going to be completely free

 

[PJ87]

It’s very easy to say one era had it better, and being in my 50’s I fall in between those with the golden pensions and newer workplace replacements, but the modern life has so many more things now considered “essential” that years back weren’t around. Mobile phones, cable/ satellite Tv, 3 yr cycle of car ownership the list goes on.
Yes I agree housing prices are silly, but houses are viewed and used as a commodity rather than a home. Sadly that’s a legacy of the 80’s and Mrs T, just as private pensions being raped for around 30% by the Chancellor of the day Gordon Brown has meant those, like myself, who had put away their own money as we were all told state pensions would be worthless now have to work for longer.
There’s better and worse for every generation, and moaning about it or throwing insults at people because they are older or younger than you doesn’t help anyone.

Things start to get cheaper in time aswell.. mobile phones are now becoming old news and essiental

My mate at work gets redme phones off Amazon £160 for the phone it's pretty decent. Nothing cost to buy compared to the big brands

I bought my wife a cheap Huawei £220 does everything my Samsung does .. I'd be tempted to switch myself if trump hadn't influenced our policy and also locked them out of America.. anyways her contract ended .. I got her sim only to go with her new phone £12 a month . Again cheap we chips for what she needs..

Too many people want the top rangers without top range budget to go with

 

[Kellfire]

My friends bf has just had to sell his flat.. the bank wouldn't lend him 80k to buy out his flat mate so he had to sell up and move home to start again.. at 35 .. they are now saving to buy together but are about 10k short will take a while

Another friend of mine who I went to school with.. he went back to teach at our school, has now replacement the head of ICT who stood down to semi retire (my mother lol another story) but even he lives at home at 33 as he just can't afford to get a house on his own. On a good wage In a good career ... He has gone without he has a tone in savings waiting to spend on a house ..

If only life was simple eh

It’s probably entirely his fault though and he should just get a better job and have less fun in life and get another three jobs if he needs to because he’s a lazy millennial.

 

[PJ87]

It’s probably entirely his fault though and he should just get a better job and have less fun in life and get another three jobs if he needs to because he’s a lazy millennial.

Yeah completely , nothing to do with covid meaning the banks tightened up and refused to take guaranteed overtime into account for the mortgage

Damn snowflakes

 

[Fromtherough]

It’s probably entirely his fault though and he should just get a better job and have less fun in life and get another three jobs if he needs to because he’s a lazy millennial.

What’s your thoughts on the OP though?

 

[Kellfire]

What’s your thoughts on the OP though?

I feel very sorry for the guy as would anyone with a touch of empathy.

 

[SocketRocket]

Again "in your day" posts. You just don't understand modern life

The old going without nice things arguement ... A classic

Or the waited for a crash to get on the market

All simple and achievable now.....

Well done you.



Workplace pensions are there to replace state pensions long term. The gov will use it as an excuse to bin off that pension as everyone will have one.



Pensions were a lot better for sure. My father recently retired from royal mail who ruined his pension.. he was due to get nothing. He tracked down an old pension from when he worked in London .. bear in mind that was 1994 he left that job .. wasn't there that long maybe 10 years? The pension is enough combined with his royal mail one to bring his earnings to just above what he was being paid with royal mail. He isn't even 65.. so doesnt include his state pension either.

You wouldn't get that now at all.

I am very fortunate.. but I still don't trust what the government will do to pensions in the future. I pay AVCs to boost my already final salary pension just incase they ruin it in 30 years. Many people wouldn't be able to afford to shove money into a pension and AVCs plus afford to live.

Zero hour are great for certain people but that should be limited to students working through uni, people who want flexibility etc. The whole gig economy that's been set up is terrible .

Would like to see the gov back more apprenticeships.. discourage people from unis. Unless you need a degree for your career.. like a Dr .. we need far more tradesmen and other careers ofc who people could learn a trade and earn good money without crippling debt just because "uni life" is the done thing.

Will discourage my girls from uni unless needed. My wife has a degree doesn't use it. I don't have a degree I left at 16 (after my paper round) apprenticeship and never been unemployed since.. don't think one of My friends thought my decision was a good one to turn down the 6th form at My old school. Yet only one of them is paid more than me now but all of them have a huge debt to their name (which one day the gov could say to a bank count it against them for a mortgage imo).

Going back to the future unless my girls become doctors or bankers or something I don't see them owning houses for a long time and only way they could get the deposit is either a grant from the bank of mum and dad or inheritance from the bank of nan and grandad. Which is a depressing thought.

Your Fathers pension he found would not pay out what you're suggesting. The very best ones allowed 1/60 th of your final salary, so if he worked for 10 years and was earning something in the region of £20,000 ne would get: £20000 × 1/60 × 10 which would be in the region of £3,330 a year or £280 a month. And that's for the best defined pensions.

 

[3offTheTee]

So sorry for your son’s problems SILH and hope things improve soon. If I remember correctly he had a partner. what is her position with work/Savings family support as I know you have contributed in the past.

Ha stour son made any progress now and what is his plan to recover the money? What is the amount involved; you may prefer not to answer that question. The reason I ask is how much difference would the amount owed have made over a period of 4 months.

Realistically the ’employment‘ he is in is always going to be difficult because of competition/and now COVID and wonder whether he should consider changing direction.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

It’s very easy to say one era had it better, and being in my 50’s I fall in between those with the golden pensions and newer workplace replacements, but the modern life has so many more things now considered “essential” that years back weren’t around. Mobile phones, cable/ satellite Tv, 3 yr cycle of car ownership the list goes on.
Yes I agree housing prices are silly, but houses are viewed and used as a commodity rather than a home. Sadly that’s a legacy of the 80’s and Mrs T, just as private pensions being raped for around 30% by the Chancellor of the day Gordon Brown has meant those, like myself, who had put away their own money as we were all told state pensions would be worthless now have to work for longer.
There’s better and worse for every generation, and moaning about it or throwing insults at people because they are older or younger than you doesn’t help anyone.

I agree. But, there is a vital difference in one era over the other.
It is indisputable that house prices are now such that, because of deposit requirements, many cannot buy who "back in the day" (in relatively similar income situations )could have done .
E..g the couple next door both working, renting the house, but they can't buy it. Cannot rent and save for a deposit .
Another big difference which makes comparisons difficult is the credit scenario.
In my day it was HP.
If you didn't have a third deposit and your disposable income ( as calculated by the seller) wasn't enough to pay it off inside three years, then you didn't get to buy it that way. And what you "bought" wasn't yours until the final payment. It could and would be re possessed if payments weren't kept up.

But most definitely the biggest con has been this " must go to Uni craze".
Bring back non Uni careers, apprenticeships, etc where kids can go out to learn trades and skills, and earn something while doing it, thus seeing what the real world is like. And not being saddled with an awful debt.
I am still wondering what I would have thought of having thousands of pounds debt at such an early age. I almost shudder. But of course that is relating it to circumstance obtaining when I was young? Not really relevant, I know.
But nevertheless it seems to me that the young are now conditioned to believe (accept?) that being in debt is fine . Or inevitable!

 

[Lord Tyrion]

But most definitely the biggest con has been this " must go to Uni craze".
Bring back non Uni careers, apprenticeships, etc where kids can go out to learn trades and skills, and earn something while doing it, thus seeing what the real world is like. And not being saddled with an awful debt.
I am still wondering what I would have thought of having thousands of pounds debt at such an early age. I almost shudder. But of course that is relating it to circumstance obtaining when I was young? Not really relevant, I know.
But nevertheless it seems to me that the young are now conditioned to believe (accept?) that being in debt is fine . Or inevitable!

Ah, but it is not a debt. It is a graduate tax that you only pay if you earn over a certain amount. If you don't earn more than that then you never pay back a penny, as most do not. There may be additional living costs debt that is accumulated but the main debt may never have to be serviced. (Google Martin Lewis and his explanation of this for more)

The idea of debt being fine is across most ages now, not just the young. It would worry the hell out of me but many live with it as part of life. The need to have seems to be greater than the ability to afford.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Your Fathers pension he found would not pay out what you're suggesting. The very best ones allowed 1/60 th of your final salary, so if he worked for 10 years and was earning something in the region of £20,000 ne would get: £20000 × 1/60 × 10 which would be in the region of £3,330 a year or £280 a month. And that's for the best defined pensions.

Not strictly true.

The rate of accumulation was not restricted in the manner you describe. The restriction on defined benefits schemes was on the relationship between the pension benefit and Final Pensionable Salary.

This was basically 2/3 × FPS but could be accumulated by better than 60ths.

Police officers could achieve the maximum benefit in 30 years pensionable service if I remember correctly.

BTW for the sake of this discussion I should point out that the majority of employees within the so called "boomer" generation were not members of Final Salary schemes.

That is one of the biggest myths of recent years.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Too many people want the top rangers without top range budget to go with

That is the modern way and definitely a far cry from the “make do and mend” ways of my parents

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Aren’t these younger generations that seem to be so lucky and have bad attitudes the ones we in the 55-75yr old age bracket created?

Or do we blame our parents?

 

[SocketRocket]

A 75 year old would be a late starter to father a millennial, but I guess Rod Stewart and Bernie Ecclestone managed it.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

H

So sorry for your son’s problems SILH and hope things improve soon. If I remember correctly he had a partner. what is her position with work/Savings family support as I know you have contributed in the past.

Ha stour son made any progress now and what is his plan to recover the money? What is the amount involved; you may prefer not to answer that question. The reason I ask is how much difference would the amount owed have made over a period of 4 months.

Realistically the ’employment‘ he is in is always going to be difficult because of competition/and now COVID and wonder whether he should consider changing direction.

OK - lots of interesting posts.

On this specific question. My sons partner's family are like a lot of families in the country and cannot afford to provide her with much more that an occasional (every couple of weeks at best) £20 or so. She continues to look for work.

The concern that I have is that the UC system is a general system designed for normal times - now having to copy with people who find themselves out of work through no fault of their own or of their employer - and in extraordinary times.

My son works for companies in a sector (performing arts/music) that survives on tiny margins - largely as the people working in it are passionate about it. They require ongoing income to pay their outgoings - they will not have much in reserves - but they are viable businesses because performing arts will never cease (well who would have known ). The pandemic and subsequent government measures on lockdown shut down performing arts completely - immediately - as required by government.

Now as a result of the immediate lockdown my son did not get paid for work he had done, the detail of why the companies could or did not pay him are irrelevant to my son. He did not get paid for work he had done. Let's call it £1000 for 6 weeks work in Jan/Feb. If paid that would have counted as savings <£6k and so would not have impacted his UC claim. He chased getting paid but got nowhere.

So a little tweak on UC - and it's simple. Recognise that for recipients of UC - income earned before the lockdown and their loss of work/employment as a result of the lockdown - does not count as income when it is eventually paid. Extraordinary times - simple measure.

 

[PJ87]

I agree. But, there is a vital difference in one era over the other.
It is indisputable that house prices are now such that, because of deposit requirements, many cannot buy who "back in the day" (in relatively similar income situations )could have done .
E..g the couple next door both working, renting the house, but they can't buy it. Cannot rent and save for a deposit .
Another big difference which makes comparisons difficult is the credit scenario.
In my day it was HP.
If you didn't have a third deposit and your disposable income ( as calculated by the seller) wasn't enough to pay it off inside three years, then you didn't get to buy it that way. And what you "bought" wasn't yours until the final payment. It could and would be re possessed if payments weren't kept up.

But most definitely the biggest con has been this " must go to Uni craze".
Bring back non Uni careers, apprenticeships, etc where kids can go out to learn trades and skills, and earn something while doing it, thus seeing what the real world is like. And not being saddled with an awful debt.
I am still wondering what I would have thought of having thousands of pounds debt at such an early age. I almost shudder. But of course that is relating it to circumstance obtaining when I was young? Not really relevant, I know.
But nevertheless it seems to me that the young are now conditioned to believe (accept?) that being in debt is fine . Or inevitable!

Very true on so many points, think now if you did try and start a career who could afford to buy a house at 20 with the wages they could get?

They would have to rent and then would be trapped in the rental market for years

 

[Fromtherough]

I feel very sorry for the guy as would anyone with a touch of empathy.

I empathise with anyone who is struggling. I struggle to sympathise with those who potentially could get themselves out of a situation, or at least try to, but opt not to.