TRUMP, What the hell is going on

[drdel]

And how did it work out last time “Western Nations “ decided that they should neutralise or eradicate these “nations” ? What happened to both Iraq and Afghanistan ? How many further western people lost their lives because the US decided to “neutralise” a Middle East nation

And what do you think is going to happen now - they will have their revenge and then we will point fingers at them and it won’t be long before “boots on the ground “ .

Trump and his team and have made a monumental error in public by carrying out this attack which is as close to declaring war as you can get

I saw enough people lose their lives because the US and their “war on terror” - don’t want to see more lose their lives

I can see your view but disagree. The west has been continually pushed - Trump/USA/West will always be on the 'back foot' against terrorism as ANY preemptive actions goes against the moral principles and democratic decision making. Diplomacy and UN has pretty much failed. Any decision can be easily be critiqued in hindsight by those enjoying the freedom of not having the responsibility.

You seem to advocate a 'do-nothing' policy: faced with the circumstances and given your criticism of Trump I wonder and what would you think is a preferred course of action against a rogue state bent on acquiring a nuclear capability asap.

 

[hovis]

I dont see how anyone can have an opinion. not one person on this forum has access to the Intel that lead trump to authorise this strike. so we're just guessing.

 

[3offTheTee]

I dont see how anyone can have an opinion. not one person on this forum has access to the Intel that lead trump to authorise this strike. so we're just guessing.

Not much changes with the guessing. The only exception of course being The Brexit thread where quite a few had insider knowledge allegedl!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I can see your view but disagree. The west has been continually pushed - Trump/USA/West will always be on the 'back foot' against terrorism as ANY preemptive actions goes against the moral principles and democratic decision making. Diplomacy and UN has pretty much failed. Any decision can be easily be critiqued in hindsight by those enjoying the freedom of not having the responsibility.

You seem to advocate a 'do-nothing' policy: faced with the circumstances and given your criticism of Trump I wonder and what would you think is a preferred course of action against a rogue state bent on acquiring a nuclear capability asap.

Iran have no nuclear capability at all and anything about want to acquire it is all subjective with not much proof

Remember the treaty - i believe it was Trump who pulled out of it starting it all

it wasn’t that long ago Bush decided he wanted to help the world and remove Hussain - lots of talk about WMD’s and that was the justification for that “invasion” - how many did they find in Iraq again ? Was it “zero”

And now we have another US intelligence making lots of claims to attempt to justify their actions - we can see this from the western picture , imagine the picture from the other side - another western leader decides to be the world police again , what do we think will be the outcome from this ? Do we suddenly expect the extremists to stop ? Or do we think they will intensify and actually increase attacks. There is no doubt there will be revenge attacks against the Western and we will be in the firing line with more innocent lives to be lost.

We as a nation lost many lives during the Iraq invasion and then subsequent ISIS attacks all down to Bush and his “intelligence”

I lost friends and work colleagues before - I don’t want to see anymore being lost and the actions of Trump and his “intelligence” will lead to that IMO

 

[Old Skier]

Iran have no nuclear capability at all and anything about want to acquire it is all subjective with not much proof

Remember the treaty - i believe it was Trump who pulled out of it starting it all

it wasn’t that long ago Bush decided he wanted to help the world and remove Hussain - lots of talk about WMD’s and that was the justification for that “invasion” - how many did they find in Iraq again ? Was it “zero”

And now we have another US intelligence making lots of claims to attempt to justify their actions - we can see this from the western picture , imagine the picture from the other side - another western leader decides to be the world police again , what do we think will be the outcome from this ? Do we suddenly expect the extremists to stop ? Or do we think they will intensify and actually increase attacks. There is no doubt there will be revenge attacks against the Western and we will be in the firing line with more innocent lives to be lost.

We as a nation lost many lives during the Iraq invasion and then subsequent ISIS attacks all down to Bush and his “intelligence”

I lost friends and work colleagues before - I don’t want to see anymore being lost and the actions of Trump and his “intelligence” will lead to that IMO

Nobody wants to see any lose of life but let's not forget our own government of the day supplied false intelligence for the invasion of Iraq.

 

[SocketRocket]

Iran have no nuclear capability at all and anything about want to acquire it is all subjective with not much proof

Remember the treaty - i believe it was Trump who pulled out of it starting it all

it wasn’t that long ago Bush decided he wanted to help the world and remove Hussain - lots of talk about WMD’s and that was the justification for that “invasion” - how many did they find in Iraq again ? Was it “zero”

And now we have another US intelligence making lots of claims to attempt to justify their actions - we can see this from the western picture , imagine the picture from the other side - another western leader decides to be the world police again , what do we think will be the outcome from this ? Do we suddenly expect the extremists to stop ? Or do we think they will intensify and actually increase attacks. There is no doubt there will be revenge attacks against the Western and we will be in the firing line with more innocent lives to be lost.

We as a nation lost many lives during the Iraq invasion and then subsequent ISIS attacks all down to Bush and his “intelligence”

I lost friends and work colleagues before - I don’t want to see anymore being lost and the actions of Trump and his “intelligence” will lead to that IMO

Do you of know what this guy may have been planning against the USA and its allies, do you know what threat he was to peace and stability in the World? We know nothing about it on this forum and as such its best to not guess about the whys or wherefors that lead to this act. It just could be that if he was alive many peoples friends and colleagues could have lost their lives.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Do you of know what this guy may have been planning against the USA and its allies, do you know what threat he was to peace and stability in the World? We know nothing about it on this forum and as such its best to not guess about the whys or wherefors that lead to this act. It just could be that if he was alive many peoples friends and colleagues could have lost their lives.

What peace and stability is that then ? I can’t remember the last time there was peace or stability - what’s the current alert state ? Pretty high for “peace and stability”

Was the same thing said about when they went Hussain or Gaddafi ?

I’m surprised they don’t go the people carrying out terror attacks in Israel

So what will be the response when revenge attacks are carried out by Iran ? Will the USA now try and go for Qaani - he has slated Trump in public as well. Only have to see the current response to US Embassies in the Middle East to see what this has done

 

[SocketRocket]

What peace and stability is that then ? I can’t remember the last time there was peace or stability - what’s the current alert state ? Pretty high for “peace and stability”

Was the same thing said about when they went Hussain or Gaddafi ?

I’m surprised they don’t go the people carrying out terror attacks in Israel

So what will be the response when revenge attacks are carried out by Iran ? Will the USA now try and go for Qaani - he has slated Trump in public as well. Only have to see the current response to US Embassies in the Middle East to see what this has done

No need to exaggerate. There has never been complete peace and stability in the World but like anything it can be considered on a continuum and as such increases or decreases can be measured.

You fail to consider what the alternative scenario may be, for example Hussein had already invaded Quwate and was threatening to create more mayhem in the region, can you say our security would be better if he was left. You say Iran has no nuclear weapons, how do you know what they have or how close they may be to gaining them. You are of course entitled to an opinion but its just that, just like mine is.

 

[Ye Olde Boomer]

I think if someone invaded Hawaii. There would rightly so be an outcry in America.

It happened in December of 1941.

It took catastrophe in the Pacific to finally get us to help you (and the USSR) in Europe.
Because of their treaty with Japan, Germany and Italy had to reluctantly declare war on us... and then we were in.
Better late than never, i guess.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

No need to exaggerate. There has never been complete peace and stability in the World but like anything it can be considered on a continuum and as such increases or decreases can be measured.

You fail to consider what the alternative scenario may be, for example Hussein had already invaded Quwate and was threatening to create more mayhem in the region, can you say our security would be better if he was left. You say Iran has no nuclear weapons, how do you know what they have or how close they may be to gaining them. You are of course entitled to an opinion but its just that, just like mine is.

The US invaded Iraq on the back of lies -and thousands lost their lives on the back of those lies including many British people. You cannot justify actions on the back of “alternative scenarios” or “maybes”.

Ever since the the invasion of Iraq and the actions against other Middle East countries with have seen in the UK the rise of Terrorist activities from Islamic Fundamentlists have we not ?

The invasion of Iraq helped ensure ISIS become the beast that continues to kill and carry out Terrorist attacks as we speak - forgot Alternate scenarios , this is fact and real life - and more will continue to be targeted because of the recent actions

You would have thought a lesson was learned after the Iraq invasion - it appears not.

And yes Iran has no nuclear weapons - zero , no ability to launch a nuclear attack.

Maybe the US should concentrate on nations that do have a nuclear threat and carry out atrocities almost daily.

 

[Hobbit]

The US invaded Iraq on the back of lies -and thousands lost their lives on the back of those lies including many British people. You cannot justify actions on the back of “alternative scenarios” or “maybes”.

Ever since the the invasion of Iraq and the actions against other Middle East countries with have seen in the UK the rise of Terrorist activities from Islamic Fundamentlists have we not ?

The invasion of Iraq helped ensure ISIS become the beast that continues to kill and carry out Terrorist attacks as we speak - forgot Alternate scenarios , this is fact and real life - and more will continue to be targeted because of the recent actions

You would have thought a lesson was learned after the Iraq invasion - it appears not.

And yes Iran has no nuclear weapons - zero , no ability to launch a nuclear attack.

Maybe the US should concentrate on nations that do have a nuclear threat and carry out atrocities almost daily.

I agree in part but I just don't know about the nuclear weapons bit. I thought there was a report years ago that they had everything apart from the enriched uranium. They have, or had, the initiators and triggers. Not sure about the delivery systems.

Imagine the damage to the world's economies if just one nuclear weapon was detonated in the Saudi oil fields.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

What peace and stability is that then ? I can’t remember the last time there was peace or stability - what’s the current alert state ? Pretty high for “peace and stability”

Was the same thing said about when they went Hussain or Gaddafi ?

I’m surprised they don’t go the people carrying out terror attacks in Israel

So what will be the response when revenge attacks are carried out by Iran ? Will the USA now try and go for Qaani - he has slated Trump in public as well. Only have to see the current response to US Embassies in the Middle East to see what this has done

Taking out the despots that were Gaddafi and Hussain didn't create the problem, the problem the US created was that they then turned their backs on helping those who they promised help to, to rebuild those countries free of their incumbant dictator. That then let many different factions take over and fight amongst themselves and ultimately against the West thus creating the bigger problem we now see.
At the moment, all we can hope for it that his buddy Putin has a word with both sides to cool things down, and will probably promise to put Trump back in for another 4 years in return.

 

[SocketRocket]

The US invaded Iraq on the back of lies -and thousands lost their lives on the back of those lies including many British people. You cannot justify actions on the back of “alternative scenarios” or “maybes”.

Ever since the the invasion of Iraq and the actions against other Middle East countries with have seen in the UK the rise of Terrorist activities from Islamic Fundamentlists have we not ?

The invasion of Iraq helped ensure ISIS become the beast that continues to kill and carry out Terrorist attacks as we speak - forgot Alternate scenarios , this is fact and real life - and more will continue to be targeted because of the recent actions

You would have thought a lesson was learned after the Iraq invasion - it appears not.

And yes Iran has no nuclear weapons - zero , no ability to launch a nuclear attack.

Maybe the US should concentrate on nations that do have a nuclear threat and carry out atrocities almost daily.

You are ignoring the rise of Islamic fundamentalists in these countries, they dont need an excuse to push the limits and use any means including terrorism to perpetrate their desire for a world order based on their extreme religious beliefs. Do you think if there had not been any invasions these despots would be sitting in their countries burning flags , I think not. These people and their World wide web of terrorism are dangerous and will do what they can to destabilise the morale and economies of those they despise. Make no mistake, letting them believe we are weak is no way to defend our people.

 

[gmc40]

Not sure if this has been posted?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1212975935403810816

 

[hovis]

I find it funny that people who spend their day on a golf forum genuinely think they know better than the US government on World stability and Middle Eastern affairs. delusional!!

 

[gmc40]

I find it funny that people who spend their day on a golf forum genuinely think they know better than the US government on World stability and Middle Eastern affairs. delusional!!

Under previous governments I’d agree; however this is administration an exceptional case. Still waiting for details of the “imminent threat”.

This killing is an all too convenient distraction given the developments in the impeachment case earlier this week.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I agree in part but I just don't know about the nuclear weapons bit. I thought there was a report years ago that they had everything apart from the enriched uranium. They have, or had, the initiators and triggers. Not sure about the delivery systems.

Imagine the damage to the world's economies if just one nuclear weapon was detonated in the Saudi oil fields.

During the last inspection there were no delivery system or triggers but the issue is on the levels of uranium deposits they have being above the allowed limit of the treaty - which I guess became invalid the minute the US walked away from the treaty.

Trump once again issuing further threats to them in regards 52 further targets - clear pointing towards the 1979 incident

This all seems very parallel to Bush JR and the US trying to bully people and then being surprised when the snake bites back

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I find it funny that people who spend their day on a golf forum genuinely think they know better than the US government on World stability and Middle Eastern affairs. delusional!!

That logic can be applied to 99% of the subjects on here to 99% of the posters.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

To be fair here is the point of a forum not to discuss and debate? We don't need to have insider knowledge on every subject, it's about opinions. This is a pretty major issue, to suggest it should not be covered because no one here was at a Pentagon briefing seems a little excessive.

I don't know what this guy was up to, clearly not a nice man, but I don't trust Trump or his team. People questioning what they have done, on their own with no discussion with other nations, is essential imo.

 

[Hobbit]

To be fair here is the point of a forum not to discuss and debate? We don't need to have insider knowledge on every subject, it's about opinions. This is a pretty major issue, to suggest it should not be covered because no one here was at a Pentagon briefing seems a little excessive.

I don't know what this guy was up to, clearly not a nice man, but I don't trust Trump or his team. People questioning what they have done, on their own with no discussion with other nations, is essential imo.

A very valid point LT, "on their own with no discussion with other nations..." Just who is the rogue nation here, or is it both of them?

And then there's the global interdependencies. "You want a trade deal Boris, you put troops on the ground." Or US support for the Kurds who have been fighting in Syria ends on the back of Turkey's permission to stage out of there into northern Iran.

There's a number of scenarios that sees an escalation beyond a USA 'v' Iran conflict, none of which make for a settled night's sleep.