TRUMP, What the hell is going on

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Grant85

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I am always surprised by the sheer ignorance of many of Trump’s critics. In 2016, (And earlier on this thread) there was a lot of squealing about Trump getting less votes nationally than Clinton – completely ignoring the fact that the US is a federal republic and the electoral college was specifically designed to stop the larger states riding roughshod over the wishes of the smaller....There is also a lack of understanding about the limited power of the presidency in the US system of government and that Trump is not the emperor of America.
More than this, the United States is a deeply democratic and decentralised country with enormous power in the hands of the states, counties and cities (far more power than, say, the Scottish county council has 😁). The whole point of their system is to stop the accumulation of power in the hands of one person. Anyone comparing Trump’s America to Nazi Germany is merely demonstrating their own breathtaking ignorance of the past.
A lot of what Trump has done is straight out of the Hitler playbook, in terms of getting into power legitimately but removing checks and balances once he's there.

Also he has massively lowered the bar on what is acceptable actions for people holding public office. Whether he wins or not in 8 weeks time, the past 4 years have been damaging to politics around the world.

Democracy has, in the main, been constructed in such a way that it prevents extremists or hugely polarising figures from getting into high office. Especially in the US 2 party system where the president has, in the main, to appeal to a large section of moderates who will decide the direction of the presidency. 4 years ago enough of those moderates decided they just couldn't press the button for Hillary Clinton.

Perhaps when all is said and done, Hillary Clinton was the only realistic Democratic candidate that could have lost to Donald Trump - I hope Joe Biden doesn't disprove that theory. 4 years ago we were in a similar position, but perhaps after 4 years of lunacy, the moderates will now realise that they have to turn up this time.
 

Hacker Khan

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I feel he will get back in as the US is generally one of the more 'individualistic' nations. So whilst I expect many more people like Biden over Trump personally, in the end they will not vote for Biden enough as they get caught up in the Biden=socialism argument. So he'll raise your taxes, the cities will be unsafe etc etc. And although we mostly laugh at the idea of Biden being a socialist as he could have fitted in to most conservative governments prior to this one, over in the US I'd argue that tactic may well work.
 

Swinglowandslow

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Whatever next.

Trump publicly encourages voters in North Carolina to try and vote twice - an offence you might imagine - and you'd be correct. And you might think that the countries most senior individual in the Dept of Justice might not be too keen on such an illegality - might want to stamp down on it unhesitatingly.

And so A.G. Barr was asked - and - well - the head of the DoJ was unwilling to confirm that voting twice - or indeed even trying to vote twice - was an offence; and further he refused to confirm that encouraging individuals to commit an electoral offence might be, in itself, an offence.

Nope. From A.G Barr - Nothing other than evasion...

Really makes you wonder...what the heck is going on in AG Barr's mind.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-54011022
Having read the news item, I'm wary of who is reporting what here and why about what he said exactly,and, why and what he meant.
AFAICS, Barr was asked what Trump meant and Barr said he didn't exactly know.

You know of course, because you believe every claim and report made by Trump's opponents or the anti Press.
I don't know the truth of it, but I gather, reading his reported first quote, that he is suggesting that if you vote by mail, and then go to physically vote, that you likely will get away with it, whereas if the system worked , you shouldn't be able to do the second vote.
Even you have to admit that he has said postal voting is open to abuse and shouldn't be allowed?
So, why did he say "go vote twice" ? It might reasonably be in order to support his claim of fraud possibility in mail voting.
Or it might be to get more votes for himself ( really?)

And your bald opening sentence, I suspect, is exactly written in order to give the impression of the latter.
Mischievous, to put it mildly.
 

Kaz

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I understand that you can't vote twice, once as yourself and again for your dog, cat or dead granny as that would count as 2 seperate votes.

But you have 2 ways to vote, by post or in person.
So you vote early by post, then you go in person to the poll station, you check if your vote has been registered. If it has been registered, you wont be able to vote again. But if your postal vote is hi-jacked, then you could vote. But at the end of the day, your vote only counts once.
It's my opinion that it would only be illegal if you tried to vote twice if you were using 2 different ID numbers because it would be counted twice.
Trump was only saying this to suggest that the opposition were trying to hi-jack the postal votes.

@SILH, please see post no. 1358
Trump's losing, badly, and he knows it. Much of what he's doing now, including this line of chat, is all about casting aspersions over the legitimacy of the result. He's clearly not going to accept the result. America is screwed.
 

Hoganman1

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Trump's losing, badly, and he knows it. Much of what he's doing now, including this line of chat, is all about casting aspersions over the legitimacy of the result. He's clearly not going to accept the result. America is screwed.
You're right, we are screwed. Even if he loses and they have to drag him out of 1600, he has already unleashed a bunch of horrible people. It will take a long time to push these cockroaches back into the woodwork. Biden is going to have to put some of the McCain Republicans in his administration. He'll need their help to hold off Fox News, Limbaugh, Breitbart, Russia, The KKK and Qanon.
 

Foxholer

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I understand that you can't vote twice, once as yourself and again for your dog, cat or dead granny as that would count as 2 seperate votes.

But you have 2 ways to vote, by post or in person.
So you vote early by post, then you go in person to the poll station, you check if your vote has been registered. If it has been registered, you wont be able to vote again. But if your postal vote is hi-jacked, then you could vote. But at the end of the day, your vote only counts once.
It's my opinion that it would only be illegal if you tried to vote twice if you were using 2 different ID numbers because it would be counted twice.
Trump was only saying this to suggest that the opposition were trying to hi-jack the postal votes.
...
I don't believe that what Trump was saying was anything other than encouraging 'his' voters to ensure that their vote counts. Nothing in what he said encourages 'double voting', but DOES encourage his voters to ensure that their vote counts - something he'll claim was 'stolen' from his supporters if (hopefully 'when'!) he loses.
It does, of course, negate the entire purpose of those voters that are using Postal Votes to avoid the pandemic-related danger of going to 'crowded' poling stations to vote in person!
And, somewhat surprisingly, I note that something like 25% of votes were Postal ones last election (2016), so 'the system' seems to run pretty smoothly and, while there's an expectation of a significant increase in postal voting, it should 'scale' sufficiently to work fine.
 

Kaz

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You're right, we are screwed. Even if he loses and they have to drag him out of 1600, he has already unleashed a bunch of horrible people. It will take a long time to push these cockroaches back into the woodwork. Biden is going to have to put some of the McCain Republicans in his administration. He'll need their help to hold off Fox News, Limbaugh, Breitbart, Russia, The KKK and Qanon.
Wrong answer, I’m afraid. There should be no place in public life for any republicans going forward - they’ve shown us who they are and that should not be forgotten or forgiven.

Their entire party must be voted out at every level. It’d be an absolute betrayal for Biden to bring them into his administration.
 

Mudball

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Trump will still win..

The problem with all the 'intelligent' people is that they think people are too stupid to vote Trump.. . So they dont wont vote, while the so called 'stupid' turn up in numbers to cast their vote. That is how democracy works. if you want soemthing, then go out and vote for it. we saw it last time with Trump (and dare i say Brexit). If Trump wins, the world may go down in flames.. but all of us will have to suck it in and wait another 4 years (or was it 12)
 

Foxholer

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Trump will still win..

The problem with all the 'intelligent' people is that they think people are too stupid to vote Trump.. . So they dont wont vote, while the so called 'stupid' turn up in numbers to cast their vote. That is how democracy works. if you want soemthing, then go out and vote for it...)
That's a huge generalisation that is occasionally, but not routinely, correct. But I doubt that it is in this case. 'Intelligent' people recognise the correctness - at least of logic, if not spelling - of the bold bit!
 

IanM

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Trump will still win..

The problem with all the 'intelligent' people is that they think people are too stupid to vote Trump.. . So they dont wont vote, while the so called 'stupid' turn up in numbers to cast their vote. That is how democracy works. if you want soemthing, then go out and vote for it. we saw it last time with Trump (and dare i say Brexit). If Trump wins, the world may go down in flames.. but all of us will have to suck it in and wait another 4 years (or was it 12)

I am not sure why political groups often fail to get this point. It is simple. (and I am not applying it to any faction either) Maybe it is because both sides of an argument only surround themselves with allies and fail to engage and debate properly with the other. Even if they do, there appears to be an avoidance of the actual issue.
 

Mudball

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I am not sure why political groups often fail to get this point. It is simple. (and I am not applying it to any faction either) Maybe it is because both sides of an argument only surround themselves with allies and fail to engage and debate properly with the other. Even if they do, there appears to be an avoidance of the actual issue.
Choices are very binary... Politiicians on both side make it an us-v-them debate .. Can you imagine that a so-called Rich and privileged person like Trump used an anti-establishment platform for his last election. He wanted to drain the swamp, but so far has only added more crocodiles to it.. He sold them a deal and now Republicans have no other platform other than 'elect Trump'. As they sometimes say, those who vote for this dream have been the hardest hit. rural american has been hit the hardest under trump.

The problem will not go away, since the intelligentsia will say it was 'their choice'... Biden will need to reach out to them and heal america. Trump cant heal, so he will turn up the heat by being even more polarising. the big question is ... if you get rid of the third of the extreme right and the third of the extreme left... where does Middle America stand? Will they vote and if so who will they vote for?
 
U

User62651

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Turnout was 55.7% for the 2016 Presidenial Election. Pretty low but pretty normal, it hasn't topped 60% since 1968. For the 'land of the free' that seems very low. Or perhaps Republican v Democrat isn't much of a choice - right verus a little bit less right so people aren't motivated to vote?

Normally it is the people seeking change who turnout in bigger numbers than those seeking the status quo, despite that I have an inkling Trump will sneak it again but hope i'm wrong.

Wouldn't surprise me if Ivanka runs in 2024 then another Trump after that, a new clan of Kennedy's or Bush's.
 
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