Transgender Policy For Competitions (Serious Question)

[mikejohnchapman]

We are looking at whether we should be adding a policy statement to our competition and open rules covering transgender entries.

Has anyone given this any thought or attempted to put something in writing?

 

[sweaty sock]

https://t.co/JlhGiqjJit

Some interesting reading, from Ross Tucker on twitter.

 

[sweaty sock]

Pretty sure Open qualifying had a transgender female playing, kind of best of both worlds though as a CIS woman would need to be high placed in an LPGA major to get into regional qualifying....

I really need to educate myself on acceptable language, which I will do now...

 

[Orikoru]

https://t.co/JlhGiqjJit

Some interesting reading, from Ross Tucker on twitter.

I'm no expert at all, but one thing I often see is people talking about testosterone and the fact that transgender (M to F) sportspeople have to take suppressants. But is that the only issue?? Surely there are strength benefits to having essentially a male skeleton and muscle density?

On the topic of golf though I don't feel it's an issue at amateur club level really. Since the game is based on a hell of a lot more than just strength. Obviously the bigger discussion points have been around purely strength-based endeavours such as the Olympic weightlifting, and things like boxing.

 

[sweaty sock]

I'm no expert at all, but one thing I often see is people talking about testosterone and the fact that transgender (M to F) sportspeople have to take suppressants. But is that the only issue?? Surely there are strength benefits to having essentially a male skeleton and muscle density?

On the topic of golf though I don't feel it's an issue at amateur club level really. Since the game is based on a hell of a lot more than just strength. Obviously the bigger discussion points have been around purely strength-based endeavours such as the Olympic weightlifting, and things like boxing.

The point i picked up is that traditional 'mens' events are really just open to anyone, so should a woman want to play as a man, there should be no restrictions out side of any potential risk to safety. However, should a man transition into womens sports then the safety issue is reversed and its the duty of care to protect everyone else. On top of this as the Womens game is effectively a restricted entry, its up to the organisers to decide if the transitioning player meets this requirement of entry or not.

In all honesty, in golf youre right, with the handicap system, in my view, it should be increadibly simple to allow restriction free access to all competitions for all competitors.

 

[larmen]

With everyone having a handicap index for every tee, will the whole classification be a thing of the past soon?

 

[Britishshooting]

Honestly I find it pandering but I guess we move with the times but certain fields it’s never going to be fair. Especially when people transition later in life once fully developed into a male/female before transitioning.
Golf would probably be one of the more fair systems at Amateur level at least due to WHS.

Generally otherwise Men and women are better at certain activities and transitions from male to female / female to male in certain scenarios is of clear advantage.

Men have more muscularity than women who typically hold more body fat. Men also have more bone mass.

Transition this into something like combat sports and you get a distinctly average bloke who wouldn’t even be known as a male fighter cracking women’s skulls in UFC Such as this:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....r-fallon-fox-broke-opponent-s-skull-mma-fight

Happy to be proven wrong but I’ve never seen a case of a woman transition to a man and dominate an area men are physically going to be better at such as combat sports / weightlifting.

Gymnastics for instance where extremely small framed, flexible women can excel more than men could be a recipe for a a talented woman who can’t win medals to be the male Simone Biles in certain routines.

I’m not swayed on this, men and women are made up different. Women are better at certain things than men but from a physicality perspective women can’t compete with men. Obviously there are cases where a woman could beat up most blokes but at an elite level it’s no contest.

 

[IanM]

There are only two gender options on handicap tables.

I await the first court case.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I would be looking to the governing body for an answer to this one. Trying to fly solo on this is fraught with difficulty on a subject that is already difficult.

 

[patricks148]

I'm no expert at all, but one thing I often see is people talking about testosterone and the fact that transgender (M to F) sportspeople have to take suppressants. But is that the only issue?? Surely there are strength benefits to having essentially a male skeleton and muscle density?

On the topic of golf though I don't feel it's an issue at amateur club level really. Since the game is based on a hell of a lot more than just strength. Obviously the bigger discussion points have been around purely strength-based endeavours such as the Olympic weightlifting, and things like boxing.

I was reading an article recently in light of the whole NZ weight lifter. If you go through male puberty, physically it gives you an advantage, larger heart, larger liver, larger muscles mass and bone mass.

I can't remember where the club is but, there is a posh club down in England where one of the better male players at the club, plus fig, transitioned to female. Has won all the ladies comps hands down. Ladies section are less than happy.

 

[sweaty sock]

Seems we are some way out of touch...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/golfwe...ender-woman-wins-florida-mini-tour-event/amp/

 

[mikejohnchapman]

I would be looking to the governing body for an answer to this one. Trying to fly solo on this is fraught with difficulty on a subject that is already difficult.

Good call - here is their response:

Please find attached the current guidance. This however is in the middle of being refreshed with the hope of having it signed off by the end of the year and rolled out next year along with more supporting resources specifically for clubs.

The handicap system, as it is binary will, if a player transitions require the club to:

• Retain the same CDH ID
• Change the players gender (confirmation of the change will be sort by the Handicapping Team at HQ to ensure this has not been done in error)
• Player to submit 3 cards / 54 holes of golf from a tee rated for the gender that they now identify/live in

This process should be or will be included in the CONGU rules.

Competitions wise – you may want to consider not just divisions of handicaps but how many scores a player may require before being allowed to compete in it. For example, for a club championships, you may wish that players have at least 12 scores in their playing record (as this will ensure their handicap is more accurate of their playing ability).

If your club do then put qualification requirements in for your major honours, you may then want to consider what the terms of competition are to allow players to put in scores to their records.

If the club want to make a positive statement around inclusion of transgender people, then adopting the Equality and Diversity Policy, if not already in place, would be a good place to start.

 

[harpo_72]

Or have an open competition off one colour tee for all genders irrespective of whether they are migrating from one to another … would blow the system up, but would be quite an interesting experiment.

 

[toyboy54]

British Shooting................Rather well put I thought!!

 

[PJ87]

Seems we are some way out of touch...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/golfwe...ender-woman-wins-florida-mini-tour-event/amp/

Maybe the whole tiger recover is a cover for a change so he (now she) can win all the majors on the lpga tour and surpass jack's record by a long way

 

[cliveb]

Seems we are some way out of touch...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/golfwe...ender-woman-wins-florida-mini-tour-event/amp/

Ok, I don't really have anything to say about the general principles because I don't know enough about it, but just want to point out that in the videos contained in the above link, this particular lady has a basic body shape that looks distinctly male, and her swing looks like a man's. This can't be fair on other ladies if she's competing in scratch events.

 

[Chambers2289]

I mean, I’m about 40th on the handicap index at my club, if I was to suddenly say I was “female” I would be the joint lowest, so theoretically if I entered the ladies club championship, I would go off as joint Favourite to win it, that’s not right in my book.

 

[sweaty sock]

For me, the real problem is the "mens" category. Bear with me if youve not read the articles linked above....

I think the mens category should be called the 'open' category, so anyone can play Man, Woman, Transgender, Poodle, Equine, Fish. Anybody can play, best player wins.

Then any other categories can be as restrictive as they want. Womens could require you were female at birth or female during puberty, live as a female, whatever, and if you dont meet the criteria, then you are happily accepted at all times into the open category.

 

[Golfnut1957]

I was reading an article recently in light of the whole NZ weight lifter. If you go through male puberty, physically it gives you an advantage, larger heart, larger liver, larger muscles mass and bone mass.

I can't remember where the club is but, there is a posh club down in England where one of the better male players at the club, plus fig, transitioned to female. Has won all the ladies comps hands down. Ladies section are less than happy.

A bloke at our club transitioned to female. The plan was to become so good that he could join the LET. Absolutely worked his bollocks of trying to get there, but just wasn't good enough.

 

[tugglesf239]

A bloke at our club transitioned to female. The plan was to become so good that he could join the LET. Absolutely worked his bollocks of trying to get there, but just wasn't good enough.

The best pun i have seen in ages... bravo