Tottenham Riots.

[Golfmmad]

There's no doubt in my mind that the Army should be brought in, now. They should be given licence for zero tolerance and if anybody gets injured or cries about being too harshly treated - TOUGH, they shouldn't of been there in the first place.

It needs to be stopped NOW, and then talk about what has to be done to avoid future problems. This Country needs to man up and not mollycoddle criminals and not listen to the do-gooders of this world.

Whatever the reasons are for the rioting, there is absolutely no justification for what has happened over the last few days, just no excuses for what they have done to this Country.

And anybody on here that is making a joke of the situation needs to have a serious look at themselves!

Golfmmad.

 

[NWJocko]

Golfmmad,

I agree with you.

I would never want to sacrifice democracy but there are times when the PM needs to grow some cojones and just make a unilateral decision to stop things now.

Reconvening Government? Great stuff, by the time they get back from wherever they go on their 2 month jollies, sit down and talk about what can we do the whole chuffing country could be ablaze.

How unilateral is up for debate but we must, must have mechanisms in place where actions can be taken immediately rather than sit in Westminster watching those involved running riot around London through the window!

 

[Shaunmg]

Water cannon, tear gas, use the army, shoot their mothers, whatever!

Plenty of opinion on how to address the problem on here I see.

Addressing the symptoms rather than the cause doesn’t work in medicine, it doesn’t work in golf and it doesn’t work in society either. To cure a problem you have to get to the cause. Those who are in denial that there underlying issues are living in cloud cuckoo land, out of touch with reality or maybe from another planet.

I am old enough to remember the riots in the early 80s and those in Toxteth in particular. The economy was in recession, unemployment was rife and Thatcher was making deep cuts. Does that remind us of anything today? Someone once said “those who forget history are doomed to repeat it” Riots and looting are a common factor throughout history when a population is squeezed.

I doubt that the thugs talking part can relate to that, they just see an opportunity to riot and steal, If they could relate to it then maybe they would be attacking banks and government offices rather than innocent people’s property and businesses. Of course the police have to restore order and the law should take its course. But the politicians I am listening to on the news are wrong when they innocently shift all blame away from themselves or the current economic situations. The right wing press can jump on the Liberal bashing bandwagon as much as the like, but they are also in denial

 

[gripitripit]

Spurs have confirmed their latest signings, Italian Mario Grabatelli, Egyptian Striker Mustafa Hudi and Japanese Youngster Nikamota!!

 

[Snelly]

There's no doubt in my mind that the Army should be brought in, now. They should be given licence for zero tolerance and if anybody gets injured or cries about being too harshly treated - TOUGH, they shouldn't of been there in the first place.

It needs to be stopped NOW, and then talk about what has to be done to avoid future problems. This Country needs to man up and not mollycoddle criminals and not listen to the do-gooders of this world.

Whatever the reasons are for the rioting, there is absolutely no justification for what has happened over the last few days, just no excuses for what they have done to this Country.

And anybody on here that is making a joke of the situation needs to have a serious look at themselves!

Golfmmad.

Completely agree with you and Smiffy too.

Tiger et al - I totally disagree with your view on this.

I was brought up in a household with nothing. We got all our clothes from charity shops, jumble sales or freebie uniforms from the LEA. It didn't make me or my sisters loot shops. It made us realise we needed to work hard, did so and are now all pretty well off.

We were taught right from wrong and if we erred, we were punished and didn't do it again. That approach hasn't changed for the right-minded, civil section of our society.


Some of the people I grew up with in the 80's were the first generation to reap the rewards of getting paid to do nothing. A golden generation of slackers that expect everything as a right and absolve any responsibility. These drop-kicks have now bred subsequent generations of oxygen thieves that make no meaningful contribution to the UK. These people just don't know how to behave properly.

The only way to deal with this is with a strong hand. You cannot have people rioting for fun and nicking a new plasma telly to replace the one that the tax payers bought you last year.

If you are in the process of acquiring your new stuff from Currys in Croydon and as you make your way to your Nova sport with loud exhaust, you are hit in the chest with a plastic bullet, then the chances are you won't be out thieving and burning the next day. Instead you will be sat at home with bust ribs thinking that it probably wasn't a very good idea and best not do it again.

You cannot educate s***e. They need to be disciplined and then given a meaningful job. £50 a week to clear up all this mess would be a good start.

 

[19thagain]

A golden generation of slackers that expect everything as a right and absolve any responsibility. These drop-kicks have now bred subsequent generations of oxygen thieves that make no meaningful contribution to the UK. These people just don't know how to behave properly.

The only way to deal with this is with a strong hand. You cannot have people rioting for fun and nicking a new plasma telly to replace the one that the tax payers bought you last year.

If you are in the process of acquiring your new stuff from Currys in Croydon and as you make your way to your Nova sport with loud exhaust, you are hit in the chest with a plastic bullet, then the chances are you won't be out thieving and burning the next day. Instead you will be sat at home with bust ribs thinking that it probably wasn't a very good idea and best not do it again.

You cannot educate s***e. They need to be disciplined and then given a meaningful job. £50 a week to clear up all this mess would be a good start.

Well I have already posted re plastic bullets and the army BUT we differ at that point!
My solution is for an immediate ceasing of this looting before it spreads into the hands of the bad guys. Hard but fair policing and if that includes a few sore nuts ... so be it!
However I do think that the above shows the reason for some of this behaviour .. Yes, I came from humble beginings, yes, I have done OK BUT in my belief, there but for the Grace of God go I .. so the rich get rich and the poor get poorer and the rich(ish) don't give a damn but resort to name calling "you cannot educate s**t"!!

Maybe, just maybe, you see a wee bit of yourself or your past in the poor folk that cannot get a job, therefore no income, therefore no self respect, which makes them behave in this way, just for a little bit of excitment in their lives, so you offer us the above condemnation to distance yourself from them or your past.

They require a whole load of direction and understanding but FIRST of all they require their butts to be felt to put a stop to this nonsense right now!!

 

[USER1999]

Half the rioters I see on the telly are of school age. They haven't had the opportunity to not get a job yet.

 

[Ethan]

I am waiting for the full story on the kid who got shot. I can't see why the cops have two surveilance teams, and an SO19 team following him if he is such a 'nice guy'.

Seems like Duggan was a classic drug dealer. Doesn't mean his shooting was a 'good' shooting though. SO19 have form when it comes to shooting the wrong people.

 

[Snelly]

No - I don't see myself like this and if you knew me better, you'd think twice before even insinuating it. When my school mates were sniffing glue, smashing up bus shelters and punching teachers, I was grafting aged 13 with a shelf stacking job and a paper round at 6am every morning.

And I am not name calling, I am stating my opinion. An opinion based on my experiences.

My sister is a social worker attached to the roughest school in Sheffield. She used to say the same in that these kids need a lot of nurturing, care, direction and understanding.

Now she says something different which is that these kids are screwed. Given no chance to flower before they get anywhere near her. Parents with no idea how to parent leading to kids with no idea as to how to behave. To address this, a generational firebreak needs to be implemented to break the cycle of one generation of neets breeding another. The issue here is that the older generation don't want help. They want free TVs, fags, cash and a council house. Did you see that a mother of three took her children to Argos last night in Croydon so that they could help carry the booty? Unbelievable.

My sister believes, as do I, that the root causes need to be addressed to fundamentally sort out the problems of low self esteem and worthlessness in the underclass. That is a slightly different debate and is strategic.

I am saying that this is relatively irrelevant to what is needed at a tactical level, right now, on the streets of the UK to deal with these people. They don't need care and understanding. They need to be stopped forcibly.

 

[Tiger]

Snelly my issue lay with the fact that there was no acknowledgement of the root cause. Based on what you have written above I agree that some strong police action is required to stem the tidal wave of carnage. But when the dust settles serious reform is required to resolve the core societal ills that are the root cause of this tension. I grew up in Custom House near Canning Town. I was lucky my parents invested in me. There are others less fortunate often through no fault of their own. Whoever mentioned Toxteth is right on the money. Government is failing a large portion of this country.

 

[19thagain]

My sister believes, as do I, that the root causes need to be addressed to fundamentally sort out the problems of low self esteem and worthlessness in the underclass. That is a slightly different debate and is strategic.

I am saying that this is relatively irrelevant to what is needed at a tactical level, right now, on the streets of the UK to deal with these people. They don't need care and understanding. They need to be stopped forcibly.

Snelly, if you look at your summing up above, you will see that both yourself and your sister share the same views as I do, maybe just expressed in a different manner.

You will see I also said 'forcibly stopped and their self esteem addressed'.

I do accept that your sister is in a better position than me to judge with her 'hands on' involvement but this can also lead to being too close to the battle to see the war.

Anyway, all strenght to her in her difficult work place.

 

[SyR]

I think the weak response is the sole reason that this has been allowed to escalate to what it is now. The more people that are seen to be getting away with it, the more people will join in. Especially if they are sat at home with nothing to do and no prospects.

The police should have been able to respond in strength after the first troubles to limit it to Tottenham. I fear the weak leadership, police cut backs and the Mets bad track record (e.g. Ian Tomlinson) have resulted in this slow and underwhelming response.

If my earlier joke in this thread has been viewed in bad taste by some then I'm sorry, but I feel its sentiment reflects the truth about why this has escalated past the first night. This has been managed poorly by the Government and police management and has been allowed to snowball through dithering.

 

[RichardC]

Snelly my issue lay with the fact that there was no acknowledgement of the root cause. Based on what you have written above I agree that some strong police action is required to stem the tidal wave of carnage. But when the dust settles serious reform is required to resolve the core societal ills that are the root cause of this tension. I grew up in Custom House near Canning Town. I was lucky my parents invested in me. There are others less fortunate often through no fault of their own. Whoever mentioned Toxteth is right on the money. Government is failing a large portion of this country.

What root cause. They held a vigil for the man that was shot dead, and then others took this as a reason to burn down shops and houses, and now even more are copying these knobs.

You talk about these people having little hope etc. I was born in Camberwell, SE London and lived in a sink estate in the same area. Myself and my brother were brought up by my immigrant mother as my father died when I was 9 years old. I was in the same place as most of these people, yet I went to university (student loans etc) and have held the same job now for 16 years.

Everybody has a chance if they want to take it, most of the people you see on your screens were bunking off school at an early age and continued this trend throughout the rest of their younger years. They chose to be in the position they are in and it's not everyones responsibility to keep offering help when they blatantly don't deserve it.

 

[Tiger]

Rich it's not possible to get into a lengthy debate over this on a forum thread. But all I will say is this. I work for a youth volunteering charity and have engaged countless young people that you would put in the same bracket as some of the misguided individuals that have participated in the acts of violence, theft and destruction. Given the right support, guidance and belief they have transformed their lives for the better. Yes they may have made poor choices in the past but building prisons, firing rubber bullets and beating the lot of them doesn't solve the problem it just dampens the symptoms.

 

[RichardC]

Agree that some can turn it around, but people need to understand that there must be a consequence to their actions.
As you can see, some of these people are now threatening peoples lives and it has to be stopped.

 

[GOLFBALL_WHACKER_GUY]

I have on good authority that Bromley, Addington and Orpington are 'definate targets' tonight, and Bluewater have beefed up there security, cant see that getting attacked though, built like a fortress. meanwhile a macdonalds in Welling was torched last night (not neccessarily a bad thing) and an Argos in Bexleyheath high st got looted today in broad daylight. Eltham high st closed its shops at 3pm today and ive just been told its kicking off up there now.

Stay safe folks.

 

[AuburnWarrior]

I have on good authority that Bromley, Addington and Orpington are 'definate targets' tonight, and Bluewater have beefed up there security, cant see that getting attacked though, built like a fortress. meanwhile a macdonalds in Welling was torched last night (not neccessarily a bad thing) and an Argos in Bexleyheath high st got looted today in broad daylight. Eltham high st closed its shops at 3pm today and ive just been told its kicking off up there now.

Stay safe folks.

I have it on good authority that the EDL and certain football factions are 'defending' Eltham. I've seen pictures of the mob. Alledgedly it's with the full support of the Police. Yet to be confirmed.

If that goes off then it'll be a war zone.

So, now we're in vigilante mode. That's not good.

Severe action required to re-claim the streets - end of!!!

The cause can be investigated/resolved once the general majority of the populus feel safe to walk the streets again.

 

[G1BB0]

its all total madness but I was saying a while back that this country is due for some massive civil unrest!!

Job cuts, massive taxation, fat cats getting richer, poor getting poorer, major welfare state reform the list goes on

I am not sure if this is in anyway related to the state of the country as a whole but surely it must be partially related to the current unrest in the country

 

[GOLFBALL_WHACKER_GUY]

Locals protecting their pub on Eltham High Street



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Sorry but I can't buy into this mentality of the rioters being disaffected with no income, no prospects etc. They seem to be doing quite nicely in their designer footwear and trendy labels and that has to come from somewhere. Its all proportional. Many are on benefits and either working cash in hand or "dealing" in other areas.

Sadly the political correctness in this country stops the police using suitable force to quelle the riots. If this was France or Germany both economic and political forces on the world stage like Britain they'd have had water cannon and tear gas deployed and gone in with direct action. Our force is so scared of being sued they no longer have the capacity to manage these situations effectively. We've seen it before in the poll tax riots (for those old enough) and the student protests earlier in the year