Tottenham Riots.

[Smiffy]

Walk a mile in their shoes and perhaps you might understand

Difference is, I've been brought up to understand what is "right" and "wrong"

 

[Tiger]

Sorry Smiffy but the opportunites and support that you had in your childhood is just not comparable to some of the experiences some of these young people have had. It is too easy to say well I'm ok my parents raised me well so therefore those individuals/their parents are at fault. The issues run far deeper...

 

[jammag]

I am sorry but I cannot support some of the vituperative and obtuse comments being put forward on this thread. When riots take place anywhere hysteria takes over and people forget what started the riot and what caused it to escalate. Instead they focus on those that jump on the bandwagon and take advantage of the situation for their own gain. In Egypt there was looting and robbery but what won over that was the fact that the media focus was on the overthrow of Mubarek, whose regime was frowned upon by the West.

We have rising unemployment and inflation. We have a reduction in benefits. We have increases in VAT and the removal of the Educational Maintenance Allowance. We have economic experts who have consistently warned that the austerity measures would cause most harm to the most marginalised and impoverished in society. We have significant cuts in public services. Rioting occurs when the underpriviledged reach a point when they feel they have nothing to lose.

WHat sparked the unrest was the shooting of a local man Mark Duggan on Thursday as they tried to arrest him. An illegal gun was found at the scene. That was the spark, what you are witnessing now is a mixture of released frustration by a forgotten youth who have no job prospects and are living on the breadline, coupled to opportunists that are using the smokescreeen of the riots to conduct various nefarious activities.

I am not condoning the violence nor belittling the substantial losses incurred by innocent people who have been caught in the crossfire. But I am saying that huge swathes of the population do not understand the challenges being faced by those on the fringes of society and yet are quick to judge. Walk a mile in their shoes and perhaps you might understand or alternatively you can continue the "shoot the scum" rhetoric which is clearly far more sophisticated debate.

Edit By the way I suggest those of you on twitter look at the #riotcleanup and #riotwombles hashtags which were started by young people

I think what you have said is correct but I feel most people on this are saying shoot the gits because they are looting innocent people. They are destroying peoples livelihoods. I have no problem if they have issues with the government etc but to attack people who are struggling to live and then how people make there living is just plain wrong. I for one am looking forward to the army getting involved and seeing them run back to there parents as most of them are just youths chancing there arm on some violence as they know they may just get away with it.

 

[NWJocko]

Tiger,

I get what you're saying and you do make good points.

However, part of the problem is that those that are on the "fringes" of scoety with no job prospects are, often, there through personal choices.

i.e. it has been far too easy for people to do nothing with their lives, pitch up at the post office and get more in benefits than they can working. That is their choice and it is the system to blame rather than the individual (to a degree, there is still the "self respect" aspect of working to provide for your family that has been lost to most)

However, that is no longer the case and these people still expect to be mollycoddled with benefits.

Note I say often, I appreciate that a number of people on benefits are not there through choice.

This country has been too soft for too long and this is what it has reaped.

If any politician can come up with a workable solution they will be very popular indeed.

For my part, the thought of getting out of this country to bring up my family starts to look more and more appealing.....

 

[Tiger]

However, part of the problem is that those that are on the "fringes" of scoety with no job prospects are, often, there through personal choices.

i.e. it has been far too easy for people to do nothing with their lives, pitch up at the post office and get more in benefits than they can working.

This is a common misperception. There are a number of people in this country that spend a lifetime on benefits. This is especially probematic if they get into the habit at a young age. However, recent research that we conducted showed that while over the past two years 18% of young people were Not in Education, Employment or Training (NEET) at some point during that timeframe only 1% were consistenly NEET. In other words young people were frequently in and out of work as they found short term employment opportunities buit were unable to find sustainable employment. This breeds insecurity, low self esteem, reduced confidence all things that lead to young people feeling worthless and unable to contribute. At its lowest point it turns them against society because they feel society is against them. Many turn to drugs and crime out of desperation and isolation. The vast majority of young people want to work and achieve but are unable to do so.

 

[USER1999]

I can't see the army being involved, or the sanctioning of rubber bullets for the cops. Neither of these have never been used in mainland Britain for riot control, and it is political death for any government who authorise such things.

It will all quiten down soon enough, until the cops go to arrest those who have been identified, when it will all kick off again.

Where do a lot of these kids eat? Fast food joints. Where do they go when they want to torch somewhere? Fast food joints. They really are idiots. Why break into a Wimpy? Make yourself a burger?

I am waiting for the full story on the kid who got shot. I can't see why the cops have two surveilance teams, and an SO19 team following him if he is such a 'nice guy'.

 

[Aztecs27]

I can't see the army being involved, or the sanctioning of rubber bullets for the cops. Neither of these have never been used in mainland Britain for riot control, and it is political death for any government who authorise such things.

It will all quiten down soon enough, until the cops go to arrest those who have been identified, when it will all kick off again.

Where do a lot of these kids eat? Fast food joints. Where do they go when they want to torch somewhere? Fast food joints. They really are idiots. Why break into a Wimpy? Make yourself a burger?

I am waiting for the full story on the kid who got shot. I can't see why the cops have two surveilance teams, and an SO19 team following him if he is such a 'nice guy'.

Cops? You've been watching too much American Crime Drama, Murph!

 

[jammag]

I can't see the army being involved, or the sanctioning of rubber bullets for the cops. Neither of these have never been used in mainland Britain for riot control, and it is political death for any government who authorise such things.

Only reason I say about the army coming in is that I was speaking to a friend who is a PCSO in the original affected area and he told me that they are expecting the army in. Whether or not it has been used before or not I feel the help maybe needed just to even the numbers up a bit.

Everyone who has seen it just sees the police being so outnumbered they are just walking backwards.

 

[USER1999]

Too many letters in Police, and bit derogatory to type Pigs.

 

[Curls]

Anyone who thinks this is about the initial shooting, political revolt or a race war, watch this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14456065

Its about thugs, however it started, that's how it is now. And if the only way to regain control and make the vast majority of law-abiding people of this country safe is to bring in greater force then so be it, I have nothing to fear as I'm not on the street setting fire to businesses, stealing and throwing things at police. If the thug walking away from this scene was beaten over the head with a police baton I'd be f***ing delighted.

 

[RGDave]

I'm confused as to how some of these people can expect to get away with utilising mobile phone networks and internet sites to spread the word. Is Big Brother not capable of tracking down almost anyone, unless the websites and phone providers don't play ball?

 

[NWJocko]

I'm confused as to how some of these people can expect to get away with utilising mobile phone networks and internet sites to spread the word. Is Big Brother not capable of tracking down almost anyone, unless the websites and phone providers don't play ball?

Yep, but they dont have the resource to analyse them.

You couldn't make it up.

 

[SyR]

just seen on sky news some girl saying that by robbing currys they were getting their taxes back, makes no sense at all. they clearly have no clue as to what there doing and are just ruining people lives!!

Seriously? I'm guessing a large number aren't actually paying any taxes at the moment anyway.

I think that the moment the Army are released, all these 'protesters' will melt away as their only cause is thievery and vandalism.

 

[Grumps]

Should this not be upgraded to England Riots as seems the whole countries wants to join the fire sale .

 

[Grumps]

Should this not be upgraded to England Riots as seems the whole country wants to join the fire sale .

 

[Swinger]

just seen on sky news some girl saying that by robbing currys they were getting their taxes back, makes no sense at all. they clearly have no clue as to what there doing and are just ruining people lives!!

Seriously? I'm guessing a large number aren't actually paying any taxes at the moment anyway.

I think that the moment the Army are released, all these 'protesters' will melt away as their only cause is thievery and vandalism.

The arguement makes sense if they do over companies like Tesco.

Every Fiddle Helps.

 

[19thagain]

I'm confused as to how some of these people can expect to get away with utilising mobile phone networks and internet sites to spread the word. Is Big Brother not capable of tracking down almost anyone, unless the websites and phone providers don't play ball?

I think the answer is yes .. the phone companies will provide lots of help to the police BUT.. this all takes time and the situation we, the country, are in at the moment requires immediate action!!!!

The army must be used, utilising the tactics from N Ireland, rubber bullets and water cannons and possibly a curfew.

I accept much of Tiger's statements but this is now organised, groups in cars..now they cannot buy cars on benefits.... indicating that the big bad boys have moved in under the general mayhem.

If not stamped on now, copy cat events all over England will occur, sport requiring a police presence cancelled and even the Olympic Committee doing a risk assesment.

The stakes are indeed high, in my opinion!

 

[SyR]

David Cameron:

"I am granting the Metropolitan Police emergency powers to use water cannons, rubber bullets and tear gas to take back control of our streets from these poncing parasites biting the hand that feeds them. In addition I am deploying the British Army as a visible presence to provide the authority that is so very lacking."


.....Carlsberg don't do Prime Ministers but if they did.......

 

[sawtooth]

Don't worry though all of these thugs will be brought to justice and handed hefty community service sentences. Ha Ha then they wont be laughing.

Oh and it will take 5 years and countless millions to get them all to court....what is the f****** point of our justice system?

To catch people and tell them off nicely and ask them not to do it again please. Too soft by far.

 

[NWJocko]

David Cameron:

"I am granting the Metropolitan Police emergency powers to use water cannons, rubber bullets and tear gas to take back control of our streets from these poncing parasites biting the hand that feeds them. In addition I am deploying the British Army as a visible presence to provide the authority that is so very lacking."


.....Carlsberg don't do Prime Ministers but if they did.......

Magic!