Tiger - Plenty of work to do

[HomerJSimpson]

Short game in total disarray again. Three rounds in and a player of his quality reduced to putting from way off the green or using a 4 iron

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I rate Fowler but your argument is just perverse. You dismiss Tiger's performance in 2013 (the last season he was mostly fit - he still had an injury break) and yet herald Fowler.

In 2013 Tiger won 5 times, including two WGCs and the players and was top ten in two of the majors. Rickie doesn't even compare to that.

I'm no Tiger fan but you are talking a load of nonsense on this subject. Take the blinkers off.

Give up trying to reason with LP, he'd argue with himself if he had to

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Easy to say but only one outrageous piece of bad luck kept him out of the playoff. (And then an equally outrageous piece of good luck stopped him being DQ'd; but that's a whole other thread)

So he didn't challenge then ?

So is my point about him in the past 24 majors not valid then ?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Give up trying to reason with LP, he'd argue with himself if he had to

Is my reasoning not valid then ?

No one yet has pointed to a reason why he will suddenly start being a major force and winning majors ?

If it's more hope than anything else then fair enough but appears the statements are stronger than that

If my opinion about Woods isn't valid then point out why

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Is my reasoning not valid then ?

No one yet has pointed to a reason why he will suddenly start being a major force and winning majors ?

If it's more hope than anything else then fair enough but appears the statements are stronger than that

If my opinion about Woods isn't valid then point out why

I and several others already have, can'rt be bothered to repeat the same thing over and over again.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I and several others already have, can'rt be bothered to repeat the same thing over and over again.

Yes you and others keep pointing to a time in the past - 2013 when he won a few pga titles

Has he challenged for a major since 2008 ? Yes or no

Why is it not allowed to question statements like - major force and will win a major ?!

 

[FairwayDodger]

So he didn't challenge then ?

So is my point about him in the past 24 majors not valid then ?

Nope. He was in contention and even more so in the 2013 Open.

 

[Tongo]

yes you and others keep pointing to a time in the past - 2013 when he won a few pga titles

has he challenged for a major since 2008 ? Yes or no

why is it not allowed to question statements like - major force and will win a major ?!

2009 uspga

 

[FairwayDodger]

Yes you and others keep pointing to a time in the past - 2013 when he won a few pga titles

Has he challenged for a major since 2008 ? Yes or no

Why is it not allowed to question statements like - major force and will win a major ?!

2013 was only LAST YEAR!

Yes he challenged for two majors in 2013. (Unless your criteria for challenging means still being in it when you tee off on the 72nd hole?)

 

[Tongo]

He was there or there abouts for much of the last day at the 2012 Open until 3 consecutive bogies on the back 9.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

2013 was only LAST YEAR!

Yes he challenged for two majors in 2013. (Unless your criteria for challenging means still being in it when you tee off on the 72nd hole?)

Challenging for me actually means looking like you can win it going into the back 9

The last time was 2009 as Tongo said when he went head to head with YE Yang

If you believe he looked like he could win in any major in 2013 then fair enough - certainly not my recollection whilst watching them

In the Masters it was all about Cabrera and Scott and the Open was Mickelson.

And that point is as valid as any of the ones in regards Woods being a force again.

I will never understand why when it comes to Woods people suddenly leap on anything negative in regards him.

I have said he will win titles again just don't expect him to win a major or be a major force in the game again - that's based on everything that has happened since his last major win in regards Woods age , injuries and play plus the standard of all the others players on the tour on both sides of the Atlantic - that point is valid

 

[Soft hands]

So he didn't challenge then ?

So is my point about him in the past 24 majors not valid then ?

It's more your view as what constitutes a 'major force' that is flawed.

Better to to challenge and win nothing then win.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

It's more your view as what constitutes a 'major force' that is flawed.

Better to to challenge and win nothing then win.

When did I state that ?

A major force is a player like Stenson , Rose , McIlroy etc - players who not only win PGA conps but challenge and win majors or Fed Ex

Players went it comes to the big comps are there challenging to win

 

[HawkeyeMS]

When did I state that ?

A major force is a player like Stenson , Rose , McIlroy etc - players who not only win PGA conps but challenge and win majors or Fed Ex

Players went it comes to the big comps are there challenging to win

You do realise that Tiger has more top 10s in majors than Stenson in the last 5 years don't you? Or is that a fact that gets in the way of your valid point?

 

[FairwayDodger]

Challenging for me actually means looking like you can win it going into the back 9

The last time was 2009 as Tongo said when he went head to head with YE Yang

If you believe he looked like he could win in any major in 2013 then fair enough - certainly not my recollection whilst watching them

In the Masters it was all about Cabrera and Scott and the Open was Mickelson.

And that point is as valid as any of the ones in regards Woods being a force again.

I will never understand why when it comes to Woods people suddenly leap on anything negative in regards him.

I have said he will win titles again just don't expect him to win a major or be a major force in the game again - that's based on everything that has happened since his last major win in regards Woods age , injuries and play plus the standard of all the others players on the tour on both sides of the Atlantic - that point is valid

After 54 holes in the 2013 Open woods was 2 shots off the lead. That's contending. Mickelson was three shots further back before playing one of the rounds of his life to win. Tiger had a bad round but certainly could have won that day.

I'm no Tiger fan, in fact I root against him in the majors - I don't want him to win another one. But I'm not against him to the point of closing my mind to the facts. LAST YEAR he was the most dominant golfer - world no 1 etc. etc. The only thing missing was a major. He was a major force in golf LAST YEAR so of course he can be again.

If I was going to list the "big" players for next year it'd be guys like Rory, Bubba, Speith, Fowler, Phil, Scott, Stenson, Rose, Kaymer. Of course Woods would be in that company - no longer the main man but definitely one of the top dogs; IF he gets and stays fit.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

After 56 holes in the 2013 Open woods was 2 shots off the lead. That's contending. Mickelson was three shots further back before playing one of the rounds of his life to win. Tiger had a bad round but certainly could have won that day.

I'm no Tiger fan, in fact I root against him in the majors - I don't want him to win another one. But I'm not against him to the point of closing my mind to the facts. LAST YEAR he was the most dominant golfer - world no 1 etc. etc. The only thing missing was a major. He was a major force in golf LAST YEAR so of course he can be again.

If I was going to list the "big" players for next year it'd be guys like Rory, Bubba, Speith, Fowler, Phil, Scott, Stenson, Rose, Kaymer. Of course Woods would be in that company - no longer the main man but definitely one of the top dogs; IF he gets and stays fit.

Well said FD, take time to read this Phil, it sums up exactly what people have been trying to get through to you.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You do realise that Tiger has more top 10s in majors than Stenson in the last 5 years don't you? Or is that a fact that gets in the way of your valid point?

Again Top Tens don't automaticaly mean challenging

Being in the lead after 56 holes doesn't mean challenging

Being in contention on the back 9 on the final day in my opinion is challenging for a major

To say he "could have won" but had a bad round is valid for every single golfer in the comp.

Again it's all down to "opinion" on what people consitute "challenging" and "major force"

In 2013 ( nearly two years ago in a couple weeks ) he won 4 tournaments in 4 months and looked like he was getting back to being a force ( again my opinion ) but in the majors he didn't challenge ( again my opinion ) - he then won on a favourite course in the July or August I think it was so coming up to 14 months ago now and since then more poor play and more injuries

So to summarise

I believe he will win some PGA titles - possibly a WGC at Firestone but I don't expect him to win a major again or in fact come close.

When people list big players or bookies pick favs etc a great deal of that is on reputation

Believe age , health and other people on tour having better all round games than him will mean he will not win a major

(Answering both yours and FD posts )

 

[Tongo]

I similarly dont think that Woods will dominate the game again like he has done in the past but golf is probably the one sport where he has a chance of still winning a major title such is the random nature of the game. Hence why Tom Watson almost won the Open at 59 and Greg Norman at 53. Also why Ben Curtis, Shaun Micheel and Todd Hamilton are major champions. For me, its far too random a game to confidently predict that Woods wont win another major.

 

[FairwayDodger]

Well said FD, take time to read this Phil, it sums up exactly what people have been trying to get through to you.

Thanks Hawkeye, I rest my case!

Phil - looks like we disagree. :cheers:

 

[Deleted member 18588]

After 54 holes in the 2013 Open woods was 2 shots off the lead. That's contending. Mickelson was three shots further back before playing one of the rounds of his life to win. Tiger had a bad round but certainly could have won that day.

I'm no Tiger fan, in fact I root against him in the majors - I don't want him to win another one. But I'm not against him to the point of closing my mind to the facts. LAST YEAR he was the most dominant golfer - world no 1 etc. etc. The only thing missing was a major. He was a major force in golf LAST YEAR so of course he can be again.

If I was going to list the "big" players for next year it'd be guys like Rory, Bubba, Speith, Fowler, Phil, Scott, Stenson, Rose, Kaymer. Of course Woods would be in that company - no longer the main man but definitely one of the top dogs; IF he gets and stays fit.

Thing is all the time it is LAST YEAR. Did not contend in the two Majors THIS YEAR that he played in and we none of us can successfully fight Old Father Time.

Whatever the sport there comes a time when the greats have to accept that their time has passed. Each injury and recovery period generally only serves to hasten this process.