They Exist!

[Deleted member 15344]

Why beat the NQ issue to death?

We have a season. Qualifiers inside it, NQ outside it.

Judging by the poll I started clubs that do it this way are in the majority.

I think the NQ's is an issue - it's allowing players to win comps but not get the respective HC cut to go with it - if the club run those comps on full course as qualifiers ( as Congu says you are supposed too ) then this issue wouldn't happen.

The HC Committee need to help themselves in this issue as well - the opportunity is being presented to these type of players.

We don't run any comps that are NQ - every time it's a singles comp the HC is on the line as it's supposed. Cut the legs from underneath them

 

[Fish]

That's an awful of NQ comps! Are they all singles or are they a mix of BB's, team/s etc.

My belief as has been mentioned is there shouldn't be any such thing as NQ single comps if the course is measured etc, thus making them qualifying removes that criteria for unscrupulous individuals to target, obviously it's a bit harder in BB's and team events but if their history of playing changes when all single comps are made qualifying it will become even more obvious they're at it and should have their handicaps removed or simply black ball them out of the club!

 

[Region3]

I think the NQ's is an issue - it's allowing players to win comps but not get the respective HC cut to go with it - if the club run those comps on full course as qualifiers ( as Congu says you are supposed too ) then this issue wouldn't happen.

The HC Committee need to help themselves in this issue as well - the opportunity is being presented to these type of players.

We don't run any comps that are NQ - every time it's a singles comp the HC is on the line as it's supposed. Cut the legs from underneath them

Who said all the NQ's were singles comps?

Out of the 20 NQ's, 4 were singles.

And guess what would happen if those 4 were qualifiers... they would get 4 more 0.1's back and maybe have an extra shot to turn some of their BB 2nd places into wins.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Who said all the NQ's were singles comps?

Out of the 20 NQ's, 4 were singles.

And guess what would happen if those 4 were qualifiers... they would get 4 more 0.1's back and maybe have an extra shot to turn some of their BB 2nd places into wins.

It's still four comps where they are playing beyond their HC and not getting the cuts for it - that's a possible 2/3 shot cut alone and if they protect then the committee take action

And as it's team events - 4BBB etc have the other people in those winning teams been adjusted as from memory they didn't seem to always play in the same team together.

 

[fundy]

gary i assume your presentation evening just has the committee and these two attend lol

 

[Region3]

gary i assume your presentation evening just has the committee and these two attend lol

I didn't go, but from what I've heard the applause was muted to say the least.

 

[Region3]

It's still four comps where they are playing beyond their HC and not getting the cuts for it - that's a possible 2/3 shot cut alone and if they protect then the committee take action

And as it's team events - 4BBB etc have the other people in those winning teams been adjusted as from memory they didn't seem to always play in the same team together.

1. They haven't avoided 4 cuts because they wouldn't have returned the same scores if they were qualifiers. Guaranteed.

2. They have been protecting, and the committee have taken action.

3. They always play team and BB comps together.

4. The other people in the winning teams haven't been adjusted because they haven't been building their handicaps all year.

 

[pokerjoke]

Do they enter away comps for bigger prizes?

Are your comps well presented?and are the prizes there winning big prizes.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

1. They haven't avoided 4 cuts because they wouldn't have returned the same scores if they were qualifiers. Guaranteed.

2. They have been protecting, and the committee have taken action.

3. They always play team and BB comps together.

4. The other people in the winning teams haven't been adjusted because they haven't been building their handicaps all year.

If all that has been proved then as a HC committee they should have gone to the county and EGU about banning and removing their HC

Just adjusting their HC won't stop them now just entering comps to get the shots back via .1's

Right now they could get their HC back up then start to enter Open Team comps and clean up there.

Seems to me it's just a sticky plaster that will be ripped off over the next 12 months.

If there is proof they have deliberately entered comps just to get HC increased then they should be banned not just have their HC reduced - that's what my HC committee would do

 

[Region3]

Do they enter away comps for bigger prizes?

Are your comps well presented?and are the prizes there winning big prizes.

Yes, they enter opens as well. In all comps they reckon they've won about £1k in prizes this year.

Our prizes are generally £50, £40, £30, £20 first to fourth or something like that.

 

[Region3]

If all that has been proved then as a HC committee they should have gone to the county and EGU about banning and removing their HC

Just adjusting their HC won't stop them now just entering comps to get the shots back via .1's

Right now they could get their HC back up then start to enter Open Team comps and clean up there.

Seems to me it's just a sticky plaster that will be ripped off over the next 12 months.

If there is proof they have deliberately entered comps just to get HC increased then they should be banned not just have their HC reduced - that's what my HC committee would do

For the first time in this thread I agree with you. I would rather the club let the EGU deal with it, but at least they've done something which is more than some would.

I would say their handicaps are now pretty accurate, erring on the low side if anything.

 

[pokerjoke]

Yes, they enter opens as well. In all comps they reckon they've won about £1k in prizes this year.

Our prizes are generally £50, £40, £30, £20 first to fourth or something like that.

It goes to show Gaz that its happening all over and it seems like these are the type of people most big prize comps attract.
Fair play to your committee for doing what they did but we need more doing it.

I remember playing in our club champs at Vivary a few years back and our comps secretary came in after 18 and begged one of us to play well and beat him purely because he knew his handicap was false as he always protected.
However it takes people to stand up to these types and not many our willing to do it.

 

[Foxholer]

If all that has been proved then as a HC committee they should have gone to the county and EGU about banning and removing their HC

Just adjusting their HC won't stop them now just entering comps to get the shots back via .1's

Right now they could get their HC back up then start to enter Open Team comps and clean up there.

Seems to me it's just a sticky plaster that will be ripped off over the next 12 months.

If there is proof they have deliberately entered comps just to get HC increased then they should be banned not just have their HC reduced - that's what my HC committee would do

Seems to me it's a (not very) subtle hint to 'sort yourselves out, or we'll do it for you'!

Rather more the 'traditional golfing way'! That doesn't mean that black-balling style action can't/won't be taken in the future!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

For the first time in this thread I agree with you. I would rather the club let the EGU deal with it, but at least they've done something which is more than some would.

I would say their handicaps are now pretty accurate, erring on the low side if anything.

Don't get me wrong it's good to see the HC cut - I have had to do it a number of times then received the flak , especially with people I have suspicions about but thankfully we don't seem to have many who just play to get .1

Hopefully it's a wake up call for them but would also hope the committee are willing to go to the next level if needed

 

[louise_a]

Possibly on here.

Try as I might I cannot find anything in the CONGU handbook about seasons and qualifiers.

You as well as many others want suspect actions by golfers to be sorted, qualifiers are one of the tools available.

From the CONGU manual, where it covers winter rules

17.3/1 Adjustment of Handicaps in Non-Qualifying Competitions
Q. The Handicap Committee in our club has taken the decision to make competitions Non
Qualifying for the duration of the preferred lie period. Resulting from this decision a number of
competitors who played below the course SSS in such competitions are seeking a reduction in
their Exact Handicap. Is this permitted?
A. It is a fundamental tenet of the UHS that handicap adjustments can only be applied in Qualifying
Competitions when handicaps are adjusted, upwards and downwards as appropriate, in relation
to the CSS. To create a situation where handicaps can only be reduced, would distort the
balance on which the system is based. To reduce the handicaps of those players scoring below
the SSS in Non-Qualifying Competitions is considered to be an unacceptable abuse of the
system. To permit the UHS to operate as intended, all competitions should be run, whenever
possible, as Qualifying Competitions. A number of dispensations for winter play have been
granted by CONGU® to encourage this, including preferred lies and use of artificial mats.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

Yes, they enter opens as well. In all comps they reckon they've won about £1k in prizes this year.

Our prizes are generally £50, £40, £30, £20 first to fourth or something like that.

Blimey, unbelievable.

As the thread has gone on, more of the underlining facts have come out. shocking.

Another thing I noticed when looking at the links originally in the 1st post, is that they also seemed to win a lot of the 2's comps as well, which I thought was a little unusual.

 

[Old Skier]

Perhaps a year of drawn comps would spread the wealth.

 

[Region3]

Perhaps a year of drawn comps would spread the wealth.

That's a whole new ball game, and I certainly have my suspicions. I've heard they are leaving so as much as it's a bad attitude to have, it will be someone else's problem.
At least they have to move on with their new handicaps, and I know county officials have been made aware of them so they can't just disappear at a new place.

I was thinking about moving on myself because I don't want to be at the same club as them, so I was glad to hear it because I love it where I am.

 

[Tashyboy]

Seems there's at least 1 handicap committee with some cajones!

Well done that club!

Of course, 6 is the lowest a club can do this to - at least without Area Authority approval.

Foxy could they not of dropped him to six and also gone to the Area Authority for another reduction. furthermore if they wish to drop them both again, what would the club have to do.