Theresa May - Not up to the Job of PM?

[Doon frae Troon]

The ironic side of me raises a titter at the prospect of less than 20 'no surrender type' MP's from Ulster and Scotland bringing a UK Tory Government down.
Especially as 13 of them were given £1.3,000,000,000.00 to stay 'staunch and loyal'.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Tory party rules do not permit anyone but the leader of the Tory party being the Tory PM.

I did not realise that, thank you. I worded my post incorrectly really, or was not clear. I was agreeing with SilH point that the PM does not have to be a leader of a party. He is correct, it can be any MP. The reality is it would never happen, you would need other MP's to all ignore their own party, the party whip etc. As you have pointed out, it would also be impossible for a Tory MP as it goes against their rules and they would instantly lose the party whip. It is largely a hypothetical discussion anyway, but better to get the facts correct still.

 

[ger147]

I did not realise that, thank you. I worded my post incorrectly really, or was not clear. I was agreeing with SilH point that the PM does not have to be a leader of a party. He is correct, it can be any MP. The reality is it would never happen, you would need other MP's to all ignore their own party, the party whip etc. As you have pointed out, it would also be impossible for a Tory MP as it goes against their rules and they would instantly lose the party whip. It is largely a hypothetical discussion anyway, but better to get the facts correct still.

You don't have to be an MP to be PM either so he was wrong about that too.

Each party has their own rules re. who can be Leader/PM and it varies from party to party. You can of course become PM without a party or being an MP in theory but I was replying to SILH's specific example re. May remaining as Tory leader but stepping down as PM. That is not possible even in theory.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Tory party rules do not permit anyone but the leader of the Tory party being the Tory PM.

Well these 'some' Tories must be wondering what it takes to change Tory Party rules at very short notice

 

[ger147]

Well these 'some' Tories must be wondering what it takes to change Tory Party rules at very short notice

What was your source?

 

[Hobbit]

What was your source?

A change to Tory rules was mooted in Aug, but it came to nothing. Apart from the current rumblings there's been nothing about a change of rules, well not that I've read...

 

[ger147]

A change to Tory rules was mooted in Aug, but it came to nothing. Apart from the current rumblings there's been nothing about a change of rules, well not that I've read...

There is nothing in the offing re. changing the Tory party rules to allow their leader not to be PM. As SILH made the suggestion that "some Tories" were contemplating the idea of TM remaining as leader but no longer being PM, I was interested in finding out where he heard that as there has been nothing of the sort reported that I have seen/heard in the mainstream media.

I suspect that at best he is mistaken re. what he thought he heard or perhaps he just made it up...

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You don't have to be an MP to be PM either so he was wrong about that too.

Each party has their own rules re. who can be Leader/PM and it varies from party to party. You can of course become PM without a party or being an MP in theory but I was replying to SILH's specific example re. May remaining as Tory leader but stepping down as PM. That is not possible even in theory.

What was your source?

I heard it said - I did not make it up - but it was perhaps said more in respect of the musings that some desperate Tory MPs are having about how to get rid of Theresa May as PM without there being a leadership contest. many Tory MPs recognise that a leadership contest at this point in time would look to much of the electorate as being very self-indulgent; potentially damaging to the party reputation and also to the negotiations, and hence raising the risk of a No Deal. I don't think it was a very serious consideration - but just mentioned as a possible option in their desperation.

And I believe that it is possible constitutionally for someone who is not the leader of the party in government to be the PM. All that individual has to be able to do is command a majority in the HoC. Tory Party rules may not permit that at the moment in respect of May and a replacement.

 

[ger147]

I heard it said - I did not make it up - but it was perhaps said more in respect of the musings that some desperate Tory MPs are having about how to get rid of Theresa May as PM without there being a leadership contest. many Tory MPs recognise that a leadership contest at this point in time would look to much of the electorate as being very self-indulgent; potentially damaging to the party reputation and also to the negotiations, and hence raising the risk of a No Deal. I don't think it was a very serious consideration - but just mentioned as a possible option in their desperation.

And I believe that it is possible constitutionally for someone who is not the leader of the party in government to be the PM. All that individual has to be able to do is command a majority in the HoC. Tory Party rules may not permit that at the moment in respect of May and a replacement.

Where did you hear it said/who said it?

It is indeed possible to be PM without being a leader of a party, you don't even have to be an MP. But Theresa May CANNOT stand down as PM and remain Tory party leader which is the example you gave. It is NOT a possible option and I put it to you that the Tory MP's know that very well...

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Where did you hear it said/who said it?

It is indeed possible to be PM without being a leader of a party, you don't even have to be an MP. But Theresa May CANNOT stand down as PM and remain Tory party leader which is the example you gave. It is NOT a possible option and I put it to you that the Tory MP's know that very well...

I don't know - and frankly it doesn't matter. If you don't think anyone - even a mega EU-sceptic - would be daft or ill-informed enough to think of such a way of getting a new PM in place then fine. You say it is not a possible option. That may absolutely be the case given current Tory party rules but that does not mean that it is impossible looking ahead - rules can be changed. Besides - I am only relaying what I heard said in the context of the desperation of some Tory MPs.

 

[ger147]

I don't know - and frankly it doesn't matter. If you don't think anyone - even a mega EU-sceptic - would be daft or ill-informed enough to think of such a way of getting a new PM in place then fine. You say it is not a possible option. That may absolutely be the case given current Tory party rules but that does not mean that it is impossible looking ahead - rules can be changed. Besides - I am only relaying what I heard said in the context of the desperation of some Tory MPs.

So it's as I assumed - at best misunderstood although I have to say I'm leaning more towards being made up i.e.I don't believe for one second you heard that at all.

 

[Old Skier]

So it's as I assumed - at best misunderstood although I have to say I'm leaning more towards being made up i.e.I don't believe for one second you heard that at all.

You havnt met his barber

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

So it's as I assumed - at best misunderstood although I have to say I'm leaning more towards being made up i.e.I don't believe for one second you heard that at all.

It's not assumed - it's what I heard said of the musings of a EU-sceptic Tory MP wondering how to get rid of May without triggering a leadership election. You can choose to think I am making it up - but why would I do that - why might I even think it up?

If it was from anyone it will have been from the Political Correspondent of LBC - Theo Usherwood

 

[ger147]

It's not assumed - it's what I heard said of the musings of a EU-sceptic Tory MP wondering how to get rid of May without triggering a leadership election. You can choose to think I am making it up - but why would I do that - why might I even think it up?

So you can remember clearly what you heard but not who said it? Mmm...

Yes, I think you're making it up which is very sad bearing in mind how offended you get when you accuse Trump, Farage, Boris etc. of doing the same.

The Tory MP's, all of them, know the only 2 ways to get rid of May is either she resigns or the Tory MP's pass a vote of no confidence in her. In either scenario, if she ceases to be Tory leader she also ceases to be PM and vice versa. They all know that so they would not be musing over how to ditch her as PM but keep her as leader, it's as simple as that.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

So you can remember clearly what you heard but not who said it? Mmm...

Yes, I think you're making it up which is very sad bearing in mind how offended you get when you accuse Trump, Farage, Boris etc. of doing the same.

The Tory MP's, all of them, know the only 2 ways to get rid of May is either she resigns or the Tory MP's pass a vote of no confidence in her. In either scenario, if she ceases to be Tory leader she also ceases to be PM and vice versa. They all know that so they would not be musing over how to ditch her as PM but keep her as leader, it's as simple as that.

I am not making this up. It may have been a random throw-away thought by whoever said it - I do not know - but I am not making it up. And whoever I heard report it did so as if it were said in desperation not jest,

 

[drdel]

I am not making this up. It may have been a random throw-away thought by whoever said it - I do not know - but I am not making it up. And whoever I heard report it did so as if it were said in desperation not jest,

Really - you are unable to remember the source but your memory allows you to accurately recall the nuance !!! I'm sure a judge and jury would be more than happy to accept such a witness report as evidence

 

[Doon frae Troon]

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news...families-are-raiding-skips-at-night-for-food/

Imagine the uproar this headline would have raised if Scotland had voted Yes in 2014.
In my opinion the full roll out of Universal Credit will lead to civil unrest in the UK.

 

[Old Skier]

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news...families-are-raiding-skips-at-night-for-food/

Imagine the uproar this headline would have raised if Scotland had voted Yes in 2014.
In my opinion the full roll out of Universal Credit will lead to civil unrest in the UK.

Strange as there were equal amounts of recipients stating how good the new benefit was (source: BBC Breakfast this morning). Even Jeeza thought it was a good idea. Perhaps new claimants should take the option of having a months payment in advance to ease their problems.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Really - you are unable to remember the source but your memory allows you to accurately recall the nuance !!! I'm sure a judge and jury would be more than happy to accept such a witness report as evidence

There is no nuance. It is quite a simple thought. Keep May as Leader to avoid a leadership contest and put someone else in as PM.

 

[ger147]

There is no nuance. It is quite a simple thought. Keep May as Leader to avoid a leadership contest and put someone else in as PM.

Not possible as previously advised, and EVERY Tory MP knows it, not matter how eurosceptic... #fakenews