There are two ways to swing a cat - basically

[Maninblack4612]

In order not to further contaminate bobmac's thread, I've started a new one



Are the above two playing the same game?

The coach of Matt Kuchar (right), Jim Hardy, says that there are, basically, two fundamental ways to swing the club. As in Bubba's case the arms swing on a much steeper plane to the shoulders and the club stays in front of him. Kuchar, on the other hand, swings in such a way that the arms & shoulders are on roughly the same plane at the top of the swing and the club, at the top, is much more behind him.

He is of the opinion that, depending on whether your swing is Two Plane (Bubba) or One Plane (Matt) the fundamentals of the swing are completely different. For example, in a one plane swing you start the downswing by turning the upper body hard towards the hole. In a two plane swing, if you did that, you'd be over the top in no time & must start the downswing with a movement of the hips.

This explains to me how you often read in magazines what appears to be conflicting advice about how to swing the club. What the person dishing out the advice is saying is not "this is how you should swing" but "this is how I swing"

Hardy's advice is to determine what kind of a swing you have / want and then apply the right fundamentals. It helped me and might be of help to anyone else in receipt of conflicting advice. It's all here:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Plane-Truth...d=1426267755&sr=8-2&keywords=plane+truth+golf

Never seen an approach like it anywhere else. After you've read it you can't look at a player on the television without thinking "Is he one plane or two plane" A really interesting concept.

 

[garyinderry]

I still don't get it. How can you just turn the upper body hard at the hole if you are flat and behind yourself.

 

[Maninblack4612]

I still don't get it. How can you just turn the upper body hard at the hole if you are flat and behind yourself.

Possibly he says this to give you the right feel. Obviously, you can't move the upper body independently, the hips & legs will do their bit but Hardy says that the legs & hips provide the resistance to the coiled upper body. I'm not strong or supple enough to do a one plane swing, even though it is my natural swing but, when I've tried & done it properly, this downswing move works, the club is so far behind you that you don't go over the top.

 

[bobmac]

I still don't get it. How can you just turn the upper body hard at the hole if you are flat and behind yourself.

Because the club is starting the downswing from a different position.
Of course you can have a one plane swing and still throw at the top. In fact, lots of people throw at the top because they feel their swing is too flat.

 

[Maninblack4612]

Because the club is starting the downswing from a different position.
Of course you can have a one plane swing and still throw at the top. In fact, lots of people throw at the top because they feel their swing is too flat.

You're right, I used to do that, aim left, swing flat & come over the top to get the ball going straight. Unfortunately, just now, I don't do the second one but sometimes do the first & third & spend lots of time hitting out of the left rough. Hit two hybrids out of bounds left today, superb strikes which finished within 2 yards of each other. The result of including elements of both kinds of swing.

 

[One Planer]

Because the club is starting the downswing from a different position.
Of course you can have a one plane swing and still throw at the top. In fact, lots of people throw at the top because they feel their swing is too flat.

You've said exactly that about my swing Bob. So head my pro.

Personally I think you're bang on. The fact I have a little throw but still hit the ball on the inside evidences this.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Did some work on the Plane Truth with the teaching pro I used but struggled to turn enough for a one plane and so happier now as a two planer. The book which I have is very good and does make a lot of sense about the swing. I agree with Bob though that whether you are fundamentally a one or two planer it's still easy to throw it at the top

 

[Jensen]

Did some work on the Plane Truth with the teaching pro I used but struggled to turn enough for a one plane and so happier now as a two planer. The book which I have is very good and does make a lot of sense about the swing. I agree with Bob though that whether you are fundamentally a one or two planer it's still easy to throw it at the top

I'm very surprised to hear that Homer, last thing I recall was how you were working on the one plane swing and how well things were going.....
You previously stated along the lines of how 2012 season was one of transition but things were going in the right direction and that 2013 season you were hitting it better than ever......

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I'm very surprised to hear that Homer, last thing I recall was how you were working on the one plane swing and how well things were going.....
You previously stated along the lines of how 2012 season was one of transition but things were going in the right direction and that 2013 season you were hitting it better than ever......

I started off with one plane and that was going well but I struggled with exiting low and left enough to make it work well longer turn. the takeaway was far easier to control. It changed over winter 2013 and into 2014 to something akin to a one and half (yes I know that isn't really a swing) more upright but still trying to get the club exiting low and left. I played well in 2014 but just had several really bad holes per round that killed handicap cuts and buffer zone rounds. Last winter was about getting into a two plane version as it's what seemed to help my swing and stop both the left and right misses and it's going ok (apart from yesterday and the range today). To be honest I don't care what type of swing it is. I understand it (well I thought I did until I couldn't fix the bad ones on the course yesterday and through some new horrors in today) and for the main has been going well, picking up a few quid from the weekend sweeps and helping Ads749r get to the winter knockout quarter finals

 

[Jensen]

I still don't get it. How can you just turn the upper body hard at the hole if you are flat and behind yourself.

Just to pick up on about coming over the top also from reference to other posts. Yes if on the one plane swing you start the downswing with the right shoulder, then yes you would come massively OTT.
However Jim Hardy States in the one plane swing you start the downswing with the left shoulder (for right hander). He says to dial in on the left shoulder and turn this first towards the target on the downswing.
In essence the one plane swing is a baseball swing but just bent over. Stand up and swing as though you're playing baseball in the recoil swing back to the ball you are merely turning back and you can feel the left shoulder coming back. This is all the one plane swing is but bent over which is why the takeaway with the club is immediately to the inside, just as you do with a baseball swing.

 

[Foxholer]

That's also why 'connection' (between the right upper arm and the torso) is so important! If that 'is lost' then it means that you are either casting or the arms are behind - and likely to get stuck!

It's actually quite good to see a couple of 'unorthodox' swings high on the leaderboard. Ryan Moore certainly doesn't have a 'modern classic' swing and Patrick Reed has some unusual moves! Even Jordan Spieth, who looks the epitome of the US College machine, has some 'individuality'!

 

[Maninblack4612]

Just to pick up on about coming over the top also from reference to other posts. Yes if on the one plane swing you start the downswing with the right shoulder, then yes you would come massively OTT.
However Jim Hardy States in the one plane swing you start the downswing with the left shoulder (for right hander). He says to dial in on the left shoulder and turn this first towards the target on the downswing.
In essence the one plane swing is a baseball swing but just bent over. Stand up and swing as though you're playing baseball in the recoil swing back to the ball you are merely turning back and you can feel the left shoulder coming back. This is all the one plane swing is but bent over which is why the takeaway with the club is immediately to the inside, just as you do with a baseball swing.

Jim says in his book that you can't come over the top if you "execute correctly" I take that to mean you can't come over the top if you avoid coming over the top! Could never work that out because, as bobmac says, you certainly can.

 

[Maninblack4612]

I started off with one plane and that was going well but I struggled with exiting low and left enough to make it work well longer turn. the takeaway was far easier to control. It changed over winter 2013 and into 2014 to something akin to a one and half (yes I know that isn't really a swing) more upright but still trying to get the club exiting low and left. I played well in 2014 but just had several really bad holes per round that killed handicap cuts and buffer zone rounds. Last winter was about getting into a two plane version as it's what seemed to help my swing and stop both the left and right misses and it's going ok (apart from yesterday and the range today). To be honest I don't care what type of swing it is. I understand it (well I thought I did until I couldn't fix the bad ones on the course yesterday and through some new horrors in today) and for the main has been going well, picking up a few quid from the weekend sweeps and helping Ads749r get to the winter knockout quarter finals

Not as daft as it sounds. I asked the question on the Plane Truth Forum whether a 1½ plane swing existed, i.e. how far above the shoulder did the arms need to go before a one plane swing became a two plane swing. I never got a satisfactory answer. To me, Colin Montgomerie & Matt Kuchar are at opposite ends of the scale. Other players are at every point in between. For the ones on the borderline between one & two planes, which set of fundamentals do they follow? The nearest I got to the answer was that it was possible to employ a two plane backswing, slip the club onto a lower plane at the top, then do a one plane downswing, but not vice versa.

Fascinating subject.