The problem with golf ....

[MikeH]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that the traditional 18 hole game should be changed, just that if we want to attract more players perhaps we should be thinking about more appealing "gateway" variants.

If more clubs added par 3 courses, for example, they might start encouraging beginners instead of intimidating them out of the game.

bm

totally agree with these sentiments. I think as 'established golfers' we often forget how hard golf is to start with! Get people enjoying success sooner - be it putting or par 3 and you'll get them hooked sooner and then over time I think they'll be more likely to graduate to the established full course 18 hole format of the game

 

[Deleted member 21784]

I played in a charity golf day a while back and one of our group was asked to leave the course as he wasnt wearing the correct socks! I have heard members bark at younger guys for their shirts being untucked. I got moaned at for wearing my cap in the bar.
Such petty stuff but it does little to dispel the stuffy image that golf has.



Or Perhaps golf has had its hayday and the delcine is inexorable

we have a chunky guy who plays in our society always getting told off for an untucked shirt even tho tucked in clearly doesn't suit his build

course near me made my mate buy white socks once in the summer. He was wearing black with shorts. He didn't mind it was just way they spoke to him in the shop

I've taken to wearing white socks all summer and if anyone has an issue I have black socks in my bag that I just put on over the white ones

 

[Slab]

Good point, I won't go into detail but my club is a joke when it comes to catering, plus they do very little to promote it. The events the committee arrange are all for the whitewash brigade and they wonder why bar takings are so dramatically down.

I also remember when I first joined this forum, I mentioned being surprised at how little clubs do to attract new members and even retain current ones. No incentives, no decent discounts or loyalty rewards etc. It seems they are a business run by people with no business experience, seemingly doing everything "on the hoof" for want of a better phrase.

When you add in everything else its a lot for any committee to take on

I wonder if its the model of a 'members golf club' itself that's perhaps unsuited for modern golf and what players want from a golf club (not all members clubs obviously as there will be those that are well served by their members/committee)

 

[GB72]

Lot of very interesting points on here that are worth commenting on.
I think the exodus of golfers to the US does play a big part. Certainly when I was younger, the highlight was being able to watch your sporting idols play live, nothing like it and in those days players used to interact with fans before and after the game. Now golf has, so far as marketing and promotion are concerned, become a US product for most of the year, kids are not going to form that same bond and are not going to gain the same incentive to take part in the sport. Look at the latest ‘big thing’ in European golf, Beef. He is off to the US until the PGA at Wentworth and if that goes well, the odds would be short on a more permanent move. That cannot be good for bringing people into the game.
The point about families and clubhouse atmosphere is also important. Unlike decades ago, people are looking to spend more time with the family and not use a golf club as a place to hide away. That said, many clubs I know still remain very anti having a family friendly atmosphere where everyone can relax with a drink and a meal after the golfer has finished a round. Certainly at my club, the clubhouse seems to even dislike the idea of members having more than a post round drink. Nothing to keep them there, no sport to watch (even golf when it was free to air), a constant hushed and reverent atmosphere that is oh so proper but oh so unwelcoming and oh so boring.
There is also mention of the younger generation taking the reigns and helping run the club. Never going to happen at my place. Captain and Vice Captain picked from a bottomless pit of members in the same clique, other clique members voted into positions on the committees and then if someone with a reformist attitude does get voted in their ideas are shot down in flames. Speaking to a committee member on new years day who arranged a meeting last year to put together a list of proposals to modernise the club. Every one was blocked in committee and the agenda for the meeting this year is identical to last year as nothing was ever done.
What I do not agree with is tampering with the basic game or the idea that cost is an issue. I find it ironic that manufacturers state cost as a bar to entry yet keep upping the cost of clubs year on year. Membership fees have been pretty stable but club costs have gone up massively in the 10 years I have been playing.
My biggest belief is that the bar in increased participation is, in many cases, due to golf clubs. Lip service is paid to expanding the appeal but clubs that I have been involved in have a core of key members who do not want families in the clubhouse, do not want more people on the course and really want to maintain the image of golf club membership that they knew as kids. It is all about ego, prestige and exclusivity and not about the greater good of the game going forward and there are members who will stick with that view until the gates of their club close and it finally has some impact on them.

 

[Alex1975]

I remember when I first sat in a golf club bar years ago after my first round (or so) and looking at the men in there. On the ride home I remarked to my buddy that it seemed that it was a room full on men avoiding their wife and children.

I probably have not thought about that comment very much in the following 15+ years but I know from my own experience in the last 5 and a half years that I love being a father, how we bring children up now is very very different to how I was brought up, children are included in everything. We invest time in them in a huge way to prepare them for modern highly communicative relationship driven life and for me it is very much the meaning of life. I personally get a huge amount from it and as a result I don't want to be spending my very limited time away from my family. This has seen my standard significantly diminish and as a result I am even less compelled to plough time into it. Is this now something I will revisit when my little one takes an interest or when I retire?! Just a thought.

The other glaringly obvious thing and we see it all the time on here is: Golf is not at all cool and the old guard want to make sure it stays uncool as they want to keep it EXACTLY the way it is. By the time all the golf clubs are closed these people will be dead so it does not matter to them.

Failure to move with the times kills any and every business.

 

[Imurg]

"Build more 9 holers"

They are everywhere. There are two 9 holers on every course.

And they can be quite intimidating for beginners
Plus, how is a beginner going to cope with a 160 yard carry over water or a 530 yard par 5 with on all down one side..
It's like skiing. You have the easy nursery slopes for beginners, building up to the Black slopes for the experts....Could a beginner handle that..?
Put a complete novice on the first at a Sunningdale or similar and you'll never see them on a course again.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Lots of comments on here about different types of club and the people they attract. I think there is plenty of scope for them all to coexist. I like being a member of a 'fuddy duddy' members club with it's dress code, rules, standards etc. Personally, a proprietary club isn't for me, I like to see familiar faces when I walk into the clubhouse not a public facility with different people every time. But that type of set up suits a lot of people so it's pretty simple really, pick the type of club that suits your needs.

 

[Qwerty]

I hate any form of snobbery with a passion and I can honestly say the last time I saw anything along these lines was some clown asking me to tuck my shirt in at a club in Bolton about 12 years ago.

I play a lot of courses and have done for 16 yrs +, some highly regarded clubs..and I just don't see it nowadays. Been a member of quite a few clubs also.

I can imagine it being rife 20+ years ago but for me Snobbery/ Stuffy attitudes etc on the whole just aren't there anymore in the NW where I play most of my golf.
I'd actually say most clubs are extremely welcoming nowadays.

 

[londonlewis]

I feel the answer may lie in your part time golfers. Some who only play a handful of times a year, be it in societies or corporates that take up most of the day.

Really good point.
Two of my mates took up golf about 8 years ago. They played frequently and were buoyed by their scores coming down. They lost interest when they realised they had plateaued. They now only play once or twice a year with me. I am not 100% sure if either of them really enjoy it anymore.

The other reason for their lack of desire to play is the amount of time it takes. They lead busy life styles, both have a child and struggle to justify fitting in a round of golf due to the time commitment away from their families.

 

[londonlewis]

There is lifelong satisfaction in achieving a reasonable standard in something challenging making golf easy is the wrong way to go. the game used to be MUCH harder (I grew up with Persimmon()


It is very easy to pin popular labels on why golf is struggling

Too Expensive
Too Difficult

The reasons why golf is struggling are many and saying that middle class do not have the money whilst working class do not have the time is bizarre to say the least *The working class have the cash then?

My own view is a lot of loyally to clubs is being lost with all the discounts offered, earlier in the thread someone said his pal played 80 odd rounds, that is great, thing is though he might move house tomorrow, or change job etc and he would find it very easy to slip away from the game x this by millions of golfers being encouraged to seek out bargains (Which means do not commit to memberships) and the overall result is golfers are less likely to stick. Golf would be ok if the new golfers could be retained better.

A quid a hole or whatever is insanely cheap an you can play golf for this, i do not buy that it is too expensive, Ebay means you can find a massive array of clubs for under 100 quid.

Too difficult? My opinion this is a synrome society is apparently promoting which is whiny pussy syndrome

Too little time? People have more time than ever before, they just use it poorly, spending time on electronic gadgets

Not sure if this has already been pointed out as I'm only on page 2 but it said 'working people' not 'working class'

 

[Snelly]

Lots of comments on here about different types of club and the people they attract. I think there is plenty of scope for them all to coexist. I like being a member of a 'fuddy duddy' members club with it's dress code, rules, standards etc. Personally, a proprietary club isn't for me, I like to see familiar faces when I walk into the clubhouse not a public facility with different people every time. But that type of set up suits a lot of people so it's pretty simple really, pick the type of club that suits your needs.

My thoughts precisely. Every peg finds a hole, but no, that would be far too easy and smacks of common sense. Far better to sound off on an internet forum arguing for wholesale change across the board.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Eloquent - completely agree. At times its hard to discern whether the equipement and media (TV etc) drive, or are driven, by the underlying sport.

Though is there an underlying problem with the cost of the gear in the context of the sort of sports gear individuals want to have and more importantly be seen to have? Indeed why do individuals play the sports or partake in the leisure activities they do these days. How much is to do with 'this is me - this is what I do (can afford to do) in my leisure time...'

Is there a feeling (in the 'above average income' and 'better off' especially) that only 'the best' will do. That folks taking up and playing a sport don't want to be seen to have cheap, second hand or old gear?

So for example - if I want to take up tennis or golf I can look on Amazon and get a top of the line Roger Federer Pro Staff racket for £219. And spending that I have pretty much the best kit that money can buy. Yes I can buy a Wilson Enforcer racket for £27.99 to start with - and as a starter that will probably do me. But I want to play 'decent' equipment - and preferably 'good' and top brands - and with tennis I can have that - it is affordable if I just want to give it a go. But can I say the same about golf gear? I don't think I can.

Is that where golf has a problem with gear? Many, if not most, players taking up or beginning with the game just don't want to buy cheap, second hand or old clubs. And they want to wear such as Galvin Green - because they either expect or have seen - that that is what golfers wear - and they don't want to look 'the poor man' or 'out of place'.

I appreciate that there is an element of cynicism towards the attitude of folks these days - but I am not sure my cynicism is unfounded or baseless.

 

[chip barm]

my first passion is motorcycle racing. in britain in the mid 90's you'd get five blokes and a dog watching a grand prix. now you're getting near 100,000 people attending on their own bikes and in europe you could double that figure easily. sports go through phases i think. the people that attend or play sports don't really care how popular it is. they do it because they love it. it's a hobby. an interest. i took up golf six months ago. not for any particular reason. i just liked the idea of it. now i really love the game and if i haven't got a round booked to look forward to, i get a bit fed up. i'm always looking to play. for now i'm happy paying and playing on deals as it gets me round lots of different courses. when i find one in the north west i really like the feel of, i'd consider becoming a member.

 

[351DRIVER]

If this forum reflects new golfers experiences then it is easy to see why some people try once and do not come back

Rules
Cliques
People who know best simply because they have been around longer
Etc

You have a few members who go out of there way to wind new people up (I am not naming them but it is patently obvious) if this is how they act when new golfers arrive then I can see why golfers would not return

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Lots of comments on here about different types of club and the people they attract. I think there is plenty of scope for them all to coexist. I like being a member of a 'fuddy duddy' members club with it's dress code, rules, standards etc. Personally, a proprietary club isn't for me, I like to see familiar faces when I walk into the clubhouse not a public facility with different people every time. But that type of set up suits a lot of people so it's pretty simple really, pick the type of club that suits your needs.

To be fair though Gordon, the problem isn't that Club when they're financially stable, it's when they struggle and need income to survive, they then find it dificult to find the balance between encouraging new members and income and retaining the status quo.
Wholeheartedly agree there is a type that suits all and long may that choice continue.

 

[londonlewis]

You are correct, but....footie is crazy popular due to it being promoted on TV. Golf isn't because it isn't getting the TV ads to back it, because , lets face it, it's not as exciting as footie. No one is going to run ads showing the camaraderie that golfers have. The hiss taking. The laughter as you watch another ball sail off to lord knows where etc etc

Football and golf are such different sports though, can we really compare the two?

Pretty much every kid plays football at some point in the first 10 years of their lives.
The same can't be said about golf.
Football is a team sport where you can play with as few as 2 people or as many as 22, on the street, in a park, against a wall or on a pitch. It can be free to play with jumpers for goal posts and one ball. You can play it in the school break.
Golf is nothing like football in this regard.

Football is arguably a better spectator sport for those that haven't played the sport for years or have maybe never really played the sport.
Golf is often only really of interest to those that play it or have grown up in a household where it is watched frequently.

In football, people follow teams. They have a passion for the team they support and want to watch that team play. Occasionally they may enjoy watching specific players but it is actually the affinity to the team that draws them in.
Golf - you don't support a team unless it is the Ryder Cup or something equivalent. And it is incredibly rare that people support one individual (there have been obvious exceptions like Seve, Nicklaus, Player, Tiger etc...) but on the whole people don't turn out to watch an individual, it is more to do with enjoying the sport.

I suppose a question is; is football popular because it is on the TV or is it constantly on the TV because it is popular. My instinct tells me the latter is more correct.

 

[Robobum]

The problem with golf ....is people trying to find a problem with golf

 

[londonlewis]

The problem with golf ....is people trying to find a problem with golf

There might be something in this...

I am never a fan of hearing how the hole should be made larger because putting is so difficult and it would speed up the game. I don't think this is a problem in golf. It's not supposed to be easy and if your putting is making you take an extra 2 hours to play, you have problems that won't be solved by bigger holes.

 

[guest100718]

If this forum reflects new golfers experiences then it is easy to see why some people try once and do not come back

Rules
Cliques
People who know best simply because they have been around longer
Etc

You have a few members who go out of there way to wind new people up (I am not naming them but it is patently obvious) if this is how they act when new golfers arrive then I can see why golfers would not return

I could not agree more.

 

[guest100718]

There might be something in this...

I am never a fan of hearing how the hole should be made larger because putting is so difficult and it would speed up the game. I don't think this is a problem in golf. It's not supposed to be easy and if your putting is making you take an extra 2 hours to play, you have problems that won't be solved by bigger holes.

memership is down, clubs are going bust.. yeah its all good.
you are correct though, a bigger hole wont make it eaier for beginners, nit much fun if your on the green for 10...