The problem with golf ....

[Deleted Member 1156]

Ferndown have an excellent academy membership for newbies to the game. You get the use of the 9 hole course, lessons and access to the club facilities. They run a series of competitions so official handicaps can be attained and the majority of those that take up this membership are all inexperienced players so they can all support each other through the early stages. Sounds like a total win/win situation to me.

 

[BomberSRL]

I have no idea how a private club would be legislated in this sort of area. Is blackballing someone considered an offence? Not a clue Brian. As you are aware, clubs blackball someone because they went to the wrong school or live on the wrong side of town or because they drive a Korean car instead of a German one. I'm sure they will be creative in the wording of the rejection letter

Never had the pleasure of playing at a course that does this. And I am glad! What an age we live in!

 

[londonlewis]

3) Someone else mentioned clubs struggling and closing etc this is when the topic of attracting new players was opened, along with perceived barriers- sorry for assuming you had read the thread.

I have read the thread.

 

[CMNI]

After speaking to people who join via the Academy Membership which is for people who want to take the game up - there main worry is embarrassment of when they duff a shot in front of people and being intimidated.

Yea I 100% agree with this, but what about all those missed punters who never made it to the academy?

That is the bigger missed opportunity.

I know a local club to me (not mine), Blackwood has their pro out in schools with plastic clubs in sports halls, and then brings the interested kids along to putting sessions, then a few free group lessons. From what I have heard they are getting great feedback. If you think about it they go into a class of 24 7year olds, 24 7 year olds have 48 parents. 48 parents have xxxx friends and family.

Gets the name out and about, and shows the club in a different light. Granted this is a great club to do it as they have great restaurant, pro shop, beauticians, huge range with covered bays, full course and a par 3.

Break down the barriers and attract those who may never thought to try it.

 

[CMNI]

I have read the thread.

Sorry that wasn't aimed at you, the quote aspect messed up it was in response Liverpoolphils questions.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

A joining process is needed to join any club - the process will always be defined by the standard of the club imo and what they want. A PMC want more than just golfers - they want members , people who feel pride in joining a club and being part of something.

Isn't this the problem though, some clubs hold formal process's because of how they perceive themselves and their standing in the local area, not because of the Course itself, some clubs, unfortunately, still require certain professions or type of member.
We've seen on here that some will also waive the rules for Cat 1's etc,
It's those clubs that sometimes are more about the snobbery than the golf.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Yea I 100% agree with this, but what about all those missed punters who never made it to the academy?

That is the bigger missed opportunity.

I know a local club to me (not mine), Blackwood has their pro out in schools with plastic clubs in sports halls, and then brings the interested kids along to putting sessions, then a few free group lessons. From what I have heard they are getting great feedback. If you think about it they go into a class of 24 7year olds, 24 7 year olds have 48 parents. 48 parents have xxxx friends and family.

Gets the name out and about, and shows the club in a different light. Granted this is a great club to do it as they have great restaurant, pro shop, beauticians, huge range with covered bays, full course and a par 3.

Break down the barriers and attract those who may never thought to try it.

Our pros go into the local schools regualry - we host days at the clubs for local schools

There are lots of iniatives from the EGU in Partnership with Schools and many clubs take this up to try and get kids into golf

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Isn't this the problem though, some clubs hold formal process's because of how they perceive themselves and their standing in the local area, not because of the Course itself, some clubs, unfortunately, still require certain professions or type of member.
We've seen on here that some will also waive the rules for Cat 1's etc,
It's those clubs that sometimes are more about the snobbery than the golf.

Well if the course isn't at the standard that demands the formal process etc then people won't want to join that club and they will have to change their process. But I would suggest they are in the minority

 

[Deleted member 21258]

Can somebody please explain why they think having an interview to join a golf club is an issue?

Interviews are something you do for jobs, with the Inland Revenue, with the police and so on. There are formal and date back to the old boys clubs or very formal processes. Though I understand that you are buying in the club with most private members clubs(ie you own it).

I can say it put me off and I went for the interview. Bit of long story this.

I wished to join a local course in Essex, I telephoned and spoke to the secretary, and when I said I didn't know anyone to propose/second was basically just fobbed off, was quite rudely spoke to and ended up putting down the phone. However I was really interested in joining this course.

So a couple of weeks later I then decided to do something to prove something or not something to me. and was shocked with what happenned...

So I formally wrote on my firms headed notepaper showing my qualifications, profession and stating what handicap I was and that I had two young children(boy & girl) who wanted to play. He did not realise I had telephoned before. The following day I got a phonecall from the secretary, suddenly it would be great to join as I am an professional and then proceeded to ask about how old Adam was. He was not interested in my daughter at all, even when I said she is quite a bit older and does currently come with me and would join first, he just ignored it all. Anyway he offers me for an interview.

During this interview with him and two other members(who would become my proposer and seconder), I was told what I would have, I would have to use the clubhouse, bring the family up for events, lunch and also play golf with some members(even tho I was playing to single figures) to prove I knew how to play etc. Those were the things that suck in my mind, I know I was quite angry by the time I had left. On walking out of the room, one of the two members walked with me and said something like just ignore him he is a wally and look forward to our round.

I didn't join the club to say the least, I was really shocked by the whole affair and the in your face rudeness of it all (if that is the right description). I know this is one club at a particular moment in time, but I have heard similar stories from people who are members at similar clubs in Essex.

It was very imposing from start to finish and hate to think if I had been new to the game, it would have confirmed everything jo public thinks about it and never enquired again.

We need less barriers to improve golf not what we have or more IMHO

BTW Sorry about the long post, it is not a pleasant memory and hence my previous post drive4show, that I am going to challenge myself to look at things more from your viewpoint. Luckily I currently love the current club I am a member of, very friendly even though not the best golf course in the world, but I only play for fun and enjoyment.

As an example when I join a tennis club I have not had to an interview and this is a small local one, not something like david Lloyd. Similarly when mum/dad looked at the greens bowling(nice!) they did not have to go for an interview.

 

[londonlewis]

"Europe's golf market experienced steady growth in demand and supply for 25 years until its peak which occured in 2009 during the global economic crisis. Prior to this the average annual growth in the number of registered golfers was approx 5% year on year, whereas supply grew by an annual average of 3% year on year. Between 2009 and 2013, golf participation fell by 4%, whereas between 2014-2015 the trend stabilized to a very slight fall to -0.3%"
KPMG Golf participation report for Europe 2016.


"Based on information shared by local golf associations, golf membership continues to become less attractive to non-competitive golfers."
KPMG Golf participation report for Europe 2016.

"Based on our survey, declines in golf participation were not widely associated with the economic crisis in and after 2008, but they were often attributed to the actual technical difficulty of the game"
KPMG Golf participation report for Europe 2016.


Page 13 provides growth initiatives for European golf.
http://static.golfbenchmark.com/media/3/0/0/4/3004.pdf

I look forward to seeing all of this being pinned back on the joining process and an interview.

 

[londonlewis]

I didn't join the club to say the least, I was really shocked by the whole affair and the in your face rudeness of it all (if that is the right description). I know this is one club at a particular moment in time, but I have heard similar stories from people who are members at similar clubs in Essex.

That was a pretty interesting read. And an example of how it can go wrong. But it read like you based it entirely on your experience of dealing with one individual only. The member that spoke to you on the way out of that meeting sounded like a better indicator of what the club is like when you are actually a member.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Well if the course isn't at the standard that demands the formal process etc then people won't want to join that club and they will have to change their process. But I would suggest they are in the minority

Unfortunately being a member of said club is more of a status symbol.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

That was a pretty interesting read. And an example of how it can go wrong. But it read like you based it entirely on your experience of dealing with one individual only. The member that spoke to you on the way out of that meeting sounded like a better indicator of what the club is like when you are actually a member.

Unfortunately the member is not the first poc.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Unfortunately being a member of said club is more of a status symbol.

Then people who are more interested in golf won't bother with the place and would suggest it's very much a minority club and not one to look at as a beacon of how or why people join a golf club

 

[Deleted member 21258]

That was a pretty interesting read. And an example of how it can go wrong. But it read like you based it entirely on your experience of dealing with one individual only. The member that spoke to you on the way out of that meeting sounded like a better indicator of what the club is like when you are actually a member.

Yeah to be fair, it kind of was, as he was the contact person for the club and the person you have to approach, so should not behave like he did and say what he said, it is probably what he said I had to do, put me off a lot more, than dealing with the guy as I was trying to look beyond him, as I really wished to play at the club.

It was a bad experience and it stopped me looking at any similar private members clubs since, much to my embarrassment to say that. Even though I was then currently a member at a members private club(burnham on crouch, but their interview process was more like a welcome meeting with the club secretary and very informal).

What is a shame is a lot of the nicest local courses are private members clubs, as they have been around the longest and I have just ignored them from a joining point of view, DOH whos loses out I am not quite sure:mmm:

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Then people who are more interested in golf won't bother with the place and would suggest it's very much a minority club and not one to look at as a beacon of how or why people join a golf club

But also to be accepted that these clubs still exist!

 

[CMNI]

"Based on information shared by local golf associations, golf membership continues to become less attractive to non-competitive golfers."
KPMG Golf participation report for Europe 2016.

"Based on our survey, declines in golf participation were not widely associated with the economic crisis in and after 2008, but they were often attributed to the actual technical difficulty of the game"
KPMG Golf participation report for Europe 2016.

Page 13 provides growth initiatives for European golf.
http://static.golfbenchmark.com/media/3/0/0/4/3004.pdf

I look forward to seeing all of this being pinned back on the joining process and an interview.

All of this relates to those already playing - people like you who play, know the score, and aren't put off by the show.

It makes zero reference to new players in any of those three statements.

I agree with you, if you know about golf, golf clubs then whats the fuss. It is those who aren't even willing because the game puts so many off because of the perceived exclusivity that the game does not warrant. The game can be, and should be played by anyone. Look at world number 1's life story, not how many people would imagine a pro-golfer coming to be, inspiring stuff (though he probably wouldn't have made it into Drive4shows club as a youth player )

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Look at world number 1's life story, not how many people would imagine a pro-golfer coming to be, inspiring stuff (though he probably wouldn't have made it into Drive4shows club as a youth player )

Who said I was able to get into a club as a youth?

 

[BomberSRL]

Who said I was able to get into a club as a youth?

Not sure which one it is you are a member at but Hayling is a lovely track! Never felt overly snobby down there!

 

[CMNI]

I look forward to seeing all of this being pinned back on the joining process and an interview.

Also below quote is directly lifted from page 14 of your link:

"Limited personal free-time and thenature of the game, competingactivities, and the sense ofexclusivity in the sport can make it difficult to entice newcomers to register as members. "