The problem with golf ....

[Radbourne2010]

I'm in the process of applying to Gog Magog www.gogmagog.co.uk which is 18 miles from my home but open all year with two courses & fantastic practice facilities. Fed up with my local (6 miles away) course being flooded all the time. Well worth a look if you're moving to Cambridge. Good luck with it all...

I agree entirely.
I've been spoiled for choice in Surrey for places to play so have never joined a club. But I am going to be moving house this year to Cambridgeshire so will have more limited range of places to play. So my plan is to join a club. But I want to make sure it is right for me, so I'd like to have the opportunity to sit down with someone to understand what the club is like.

Things like;
What's the make up of the members?
When do people typically play?
Do people tend to socialise or just play golf then go home?
How do things work - like the booking system / comps?
If I rock up on a weekend, how likely is it there will be someone to play with?
how does the course hold up in the hot of summer / cold of winter? Ever have to use temporary greens? Does the course drain well?
What can I expect if I join this club?
Is there anything else I should be aware of as I have never been a member of a club before...

So many things you can't find out by just doing a bit of research

 

[londonlewis]

That's the thing, because it isn't issue for you, you cannot see why it may be an issue for anyone else either, that is why some clubs seem unapproachable to some.

Golf as a beginner c an be tough, all the gear, all the rules, etiquette etc, add in stuffy club, interviews, knowing or not knowing members and so on and it becomes more than one thing that can and does put people off.

All I think is the more approachable we make it for everyone the better, more members, more players and a healthier game.

I am sure you are not implying that all clubs that have an interview are a stuffy club but that's what you use the interview for; to find out what type of club it is and whether you want to join.

 

[londonlewis]

It doesn't matter what puts them off, the fact it does is enough isn't it even if it is a stupid reason or even an unreasonable reason it is still off putting for some.

To be fair I feel I am banging my head against a brick wall, those that don't understand don't seem to want to and the guy sat next to said, you are wasting your time replying.

Which maybe sums up some of the issues failing golf clubs maybe have in attracting new members who may be new to golf.

I am confident that the reason many of the golf clubs that are struggling is not because they ask potential new members to have an interview.
I am also confident that any club in that position would address how they attract new members.

 

[Slab]

So what do these people do when they want to get a job? Send in their CV and just say 'please hire me without interviewing me in person because I just can't face having to speak to someone about the role and my skill set'.

You can't live your life without having to do things that you aren't comfortable with.

I'm not a fan of talking to my neighbours as I spend my whole working life having to speak to people constantly so I like a break when I am at home. Doesn't mean I don't talk to my neighbours at all though

I know its silly, but for some that could be a perceived problem with golf membership interview/application process right there:

"You can't be a member at this golf club without having to do things that you aren't comfortable with"

 

[londonlewis]

I'm in the process of applying to Gog Magog www.gogmagog.co.uk which is 18 miles from my home but open all year with two courses & fantastic practice facilities. Fed up with my local (6 miles away) course being flooded all the time. Well worth a look if you're moving to Cambridge. Good luck with it all...

Thanks for the heads up. My mate's father in law is a member there. Am sure I will play all the local courses before deciding where to join.
Do you think they'd waive the joining fee? I have a sneaking suspicion they aren't desperate for new members so maybe no leeway on that.

 

[Hobbit]

8 out of 14 clubs I've been a member at have conducted interviews. All bar 1 of those has been of the formal type interview, with 2 giving information like, "you should always call the Captain Mr Captain." And whilst I accept the need to have something in place the thing that has been apparent in my more recent moves is the interviews/meetings are being conducted by well meaning amateurs, with the emphasis on amateur.

Things are, in the main, way better than they were 15-20 years ago but there appears to be very few clubs doing it well but at least they're doing it.

Being a better player I've rarely struggled to integrate, apart from one recently, but as a new member talking to other new members who might not be so proficient at the game, and awful lot of people are left to sink or swim on their own.

Rather than just look at a raw figure of how many are leaving the game, I'd be very interested to see what the year 1/year 2 retention rates are.

 

[londonlewis]

I know its silly, but for some that could be a perceived problem with golf membership interview/application process right there:

"You can't be a member at this golf club without having to do things that you aren't comfortable with"

I suppose but why should joining a golf club be different to anything else in life? You can't buy a house without talking to an estate agent, you can't buy a car without talking to a car salesman (in the vast majority of cases) but people often don't enjoy talking to either of these people.

It must be an incredibly small number of people that fall into the category of 'I won't join a golf club purely because I can't face the idea of having to go through an application process'.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

I know its silly, but for some that could be a perceived problem with golf membership interview/application process right there:

"You can't be a member at this golf club without having to do things that you aren't comfortable with"

You can't live life without doing things you are not comfortable with.

Euthanasia sir?

 

[Nobadnomad]

I think for new golfers the fact there is any sort of process is probably quite off putting, for those that have played for some time the process is just like joining a gym. The issue is more the perception than the reality,problem is the perception is enough to put people off.

 

[Slab]

I suppose but why should joining a golf club be different to anything else in life? You can't buy a house without talking to an estate agent, you can't buy a car without talking to a car salesman (in the vast majority of cases) but people often don't enjoy talking to either of these people.

It must be an incredibly small number of people that fall into the category of 'I won't join a golf club purely because I can't face the idea of having to go through an application process'.

Yup i'd say its easily the minority but no idea how many folks would freak at the thought of sitting with a couple of committee members for an interview

And since i don't know the number, if i was looking to add members into my club i'd think about making the process as all-encompassing/welcoming as possible (including the wording/naming convention the club used to describe the process)

A minority of clubs will like the fact they 'vet' applicants and they won't change anytime soon, for the normal clubs they may want to 'rebrand' their new member process to maximise the opportunities that are out there

On the flip side though, there's lots of ways I can say 'put your head in that lions mouth' without it sounding intimidating, doesn't mean you wouldn't still think twice about it

 

[CMNI]

Same theory for getting a job though. You have lots of choice as to where you work but you still need to find out if the company and role is a good fit for you. It's a two way process. The golf club is assessing you and you are assessing the golf club.

It is the complete opposite and thats the point.

I see a job up for grabs, there is only one spot available, and lots of people want it. The company is investing in me, so I need to go sell myself.

A golf club that has spaces, that wants my money, if I can pay that should be enough (for most clubs). It is perhaps the term interview.

What would seem less daunting would be 1) Leave in your contact details and money. 2) You are now a member. 3) Members induction meeting where you are shown where everything is, how to book etc. 4) Welcome round with captain to show layout of the course.

If you are not sure of the course you would make enquiries prior to step 1, as this is what everyone would do, but when you are considering joining a club I would like to think you have done your homework on the club beforehand.

Step 4, being a casual way to meet senior members of a new club, after joining, rather than feeling like your being vetted.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Can somebody please explain why they think having an interview to join a golf club is an issue?

Because those who would not want to attend an interview are rather too full of their own self-importance?

Only a suggestion as I also don't know - and I don't mind it at all and. As previously said - I think it's an important part of the 'joining and membership initiation process' as the prospective member is 'confronted' with the fact that they are considering joining a 'club' - with it's attendant benefits and responsibilities to the club and other members and visitors.

 

[Robobum]

For many reasons, seeing "interview" as part of the process will put people off or make them have 2nd thoughts at least. Even though the perception of what is involved in those "interviews " might be miles away from reality.

New member welcome?

Meet the team?

Perhaps it just needs to be packaged and sold in a better way??

 

[chip barm]

Even as a beginner it didn't put me off joining a club.

just read the joining form for a club i like paying and playing at. if i was serious, it'd be my first club. i took up golf six months ago. having an interview isn't mandatory there. on the form, they ask if you'd like one. seems reasonable to me and i reckon i'd take them up on it. use it as a chance to find out more about the club and it's members. totally understand that other people might find that situation intimidating though.

 

[PJ87]

For many reasons, seeing "interview" as part of the process will put people off or make them have 2nd thoughts at least. Even though the perception of what is involved in those "interviews " might be miles away from reality.

New member welcome?

Meet the team?

Perhaps it just needs to be packaged and sold in a better way??

brilliant idea

new members welcome sounds much more informal and probably a more accurate reflection of what the "interview" is meant for

these days all the information can be displayed on websites which some clubs don't use enough of. A new members welcome sounds much better

its like when you join a gym you have an induction show you how to use the equipment where the fire exits are etc. But if you said "interview" would change the perspective completely

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

A golf club that has spaces, that wants my money, if I can pay that should be enough (for most clubs). It is perhaps the term interview.

I don't think it is enough. If I am about to invest a substantial amount of money (joining fee and subs) into a club then I like to think there is some control over who is allowed to join. The vast majority of people who apply will be admitted but there will always be the odd unsavoury character. There was a guy at my club who had worked his way round most of the clubs in the area, hacking people off and just being generally unpleasant to both playing partners and other members in the clubhouse. He was asked to leave as he spoilt the experience for a lot of people. The interview process is an opportunity to assess these people. He moved out of the area and his reputation caught him up, he was refused entry into the club he tried to join.

 

[londonlewis]

It is the complete opposite and thats the point.

I see a job up for grabs, there is only one spot available, and lots of people want it. The company is investing in me, so I need to go sell myself.

A golf club that has spaces, that wants my money, if I can pay that should be enough (for most clubs). It is perhaps the term interview.

What would seem less daunting would be 1) Leave in your contact details and money. 2) You are now a member. 3) Members induction meeting where you are shown where everything is, how to book etc. 4) Welcome round with captain to show layout of the course.

If you are not sure of the course you would make enquiries prior to step 1, as this is what everyone would do, but when you are considering joining a club I would like to think you have done your homework on the club beforehand.

Step 4, being a casual way to meet senior members of a new club, after joining, rather than feeling like your being vetted.

I understand some people suffer from anxiety and this may cause them to be anxious but I am not really convinced you should change your whole approach based on someone's anxiety issues.
Should we change the way driving tests work because some people can drive but get so nervous during a test that they keep failing?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I don't think it is enough. If I am about to invest a substantial amount of money (joining fee and subs) into a club then I like to think there is some control over who is allowed to join. The vast majority of people who apply will be admitted but there will always be the odd unsavoury character. There was a guy at my club who had worked his way round most of the clubs in the area, hacking people off and just being generally unpleasant to both playing partners and other members in the clubhouse. He was asked to leave as he spoilt the experience for a lot of people. The interview process is an opportunity to assess these people. He moved out of the area and his reputation caught him up, he was refused entry into the club he tried to join.

You need members - you let in a 'known' problem golfer (such as you describe) - you risk losing existing members? Not a great idea.

 

[PJ87]

I understand some people suffer from anxiety and this may cause them to be anxious but I am not really convinced you should change your whole approach based on someone's anxiety issues.
Should we change the way driving tests work because some people can drive but get so nervous during a test that they keep failing?

Every single situation you have given is completely different from joining a golf club

driving a car? So proving you have the knowledge and skill required to operate a dangerous vechile

getting a mortgage? So proving you are suitable to lend money to so you don't go into arrears and have to chase for money

applying for a job? Proving your the best for that role

none of these are even remotely the same as applying to be a member of a club that is your choice to do. You have to have money to buy a house (mortgage or otherwise) you need a licence to drive (legally) you need to work (unless for obvious reasons you can't.. or are rich)

you don't need to play golf it's an option (which I can understand that owning a house and driving a car are options they are different kinds of options)

if you say were applying to become a coach of a kids football team (an option) you need to be vetted for obvious reasons (which some are saying the interview in golf does) but because the membership of a club shouldn't matter if you say committed a minor offence years ago it's not the same as being a role model to children. I appreciate what drive4show has been saying about this guy who sounded like an idiot being vetted out but how easy is it to lie in an interview and put on a show?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I don't think it is enough. If I am about to invest a substantial amount of money (joining fee and subs) into a club then I like to think there is some control over who is allowed to join. The vast majority of people who apply will be admitted but there will always be the odd unsavoury character. There was a guy at my club who had worked his way round most of the clubs in the area, hacking people off and just being generally unpleasant to both playing partners and other members in the clubhouse. He was asked to leave as he spoilt the experience for a lot of people. The interview process is an opportunity to assess these people. He moved out of the area and his reputation caught him up, he was refused entry into the club he tried to join.

But even if he's known locally, he may put up a case as a reformed character or give his side of the previous incidents and get let in anyway. The interview process isn't a fail safe. Someone brought up convictions, and again if someone has done wrong before why should they still pay for these mistakes when joining a club for a leisure activity? This is where the elitist tag, not only clubs, but within the membership itself is still rife.