HampshireHog
Assistant Pro
No stats for golfing strategy, I know plenty of golfers with the shot selection of a scratch golfer and the execution of a 20 hcapper.
The great drive for dough putt for show debate thread.
D
Deleted member 29109
Guest
Yes which pretty much confirms my view. If you are so inconsistent what is the point of recording stats. One day you have 26 putts and think you are a great putter but missed every green and had to chip, next round you hit 16 greens and take 34 putts and think you're a rubbish putter
Like the number of fairways hit, the number of putts is meaningless on its own.
Dont count putts for a start. It is no indicator of the quality of your putting.Yes which pretty much confirms my view. If you are so inconsistent what is the point of recording stats. One day you have 26 putts and think you are a great putter but missed every green and had to chip, next round you hit 16 greens and take 34 putts and think you're a rubbish putter
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
I hope you will like these questions. I am genuinely interested, because something along these lines is being considered among the "playing with old bats" people.
I tend to be 20 yards shorter off the tee with an old wooden headed driver.
1. What should be my realistic expectation be with regard to my handicap that is based on 21st century clubs when playing with 50-60 year old clubs?
2. How many shots should I be allowed to add to my Playing Handicap (individual strokeplay) in order to have an equitable game with others playing with their usual 21st century clubs?
3. There are a few "full-timers" who play solely with the old bats and their handicap is based accordingly. How many shots should I be allowed to add to my handicap in order to have an equitable game with them when I too am playing with the old bats?
D
Deleted member 31467
Guest
Just put in a few entries for scratch opens. I love helping the young bombers look for their balls in the rough
Yes, interesting questions, though the key question is probably more one for the rules forum on the point of trying ones best. One could submit scores playing hickory shafts and featheries to gain a handicap, and then switch to a state of the art driver like a Taylormade R5 and a surlyn ball. That would be somewhat problematic, and if not against the letter of the law, in my mind, completely against the spirit of handicapping.
But to your questions (and assuming its modern balls in all cases, not soft 1.62" balls with the 60 year old clubs).
1) For a mid range (12-18) hc, I would estimate the gains from using a modern driver versus a wooden one, a metal fairwaywood, and hybrids versus longer irons, to be 3-5 shots higher range. The distance difference you cite sounds about right. Note that that is also comparing on the same course : courses 50-60 years ago were quite shorter. (BTW, it also puts into perspective the non-existant differences in modern equipment year to year). If driver alone, then probably only a couple of shots.
2) None. Your handicap is based on your score record. No more no less. But if unofficial, just for fun, its seems the same question as #1, so 3-5 shots.
3) None. Your handicap is based on your score record. No more no less. But if unofficial, just for fun, then since they are playing with the same 3-5 shot disadvantage compared to post 2000 equipment, you and the full timers are playing on a level playing field.
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Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
Thanks for the reply and taking such care with your answers.
I should have said that I play "only for fun" social golf with the old clubs. All my handicap qualifying scores are with 21st century clubs.
There are these rare birds, like Crow, who play with the old clubs full time. Such people are very keen to let it be known that if they decided to switch to modern clubs they would submit 20 general play scores before competing in competitions.
When we play in larger social gatherings, we are aware that the full-timers are at an advantage with regards to handicap and we are considering what adjustments to make to in order to make play more equitable.
Thank you again for your assistance.
I should have said that I play "only for fun" social golf with the old clubs. All my handicap qualifying scores are with 21st century clubs.
There are these rare birds, like Crow, who play with the old clubs full time. Such people are very keen to let it be known that if they decided to switch to modern clubs they would submit 20 general play scores before competing in competitions.
When we play in larger social gatherings, we are aware that the full-timers are at an advantage with regards to handicap and we are considering what adjustments to make to in order to make play more equitable.
Thank you again for your assistance.
Pants
Challenge Tour Pro
Well. Judging by many posters' comments on the Roll Back thread and by several tour players already, the "debate" has well and truly been settled.
In the Pro game, they drive for show. The rest of their game is for dough!
In the Pro game, they drive for show. The rest of their game is for dough!
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Deleted member 25575
Guest
Not wanting to drag up this old debate, but this man has won millions, with this putting stroke
(And this is more to point out how bad this putting stroke looks than play into this debate)
(And this is more to point out how bad this putting stroke looks than play into this debate)
rulefan
Tour Winner
Tiger Woods has.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Yeah I'm bumping this, but don't worry, I come bearing stats (courtesy of Crossfield).
It seems I was right then!
(If you can't be bothered watching the video, it basically says players who added 10 yards to their drive were 1.8 shots lower on average for their round. That's pretty significant in my book.)
It seems I was right then!
(If you can't be bothered watching the video, it basically says players who added 10 yards to their drive were 1.8 shots lower on average for their round. That's pretty significant in my book.)
Bdill93
Undisputed King of FOMO
Backache
Assistant Pro
Actually it doesn't say that it says that if they added 10 yards or more they shaved an average of 1.8 strokes from their average round so 10 yds was the minimum for this gain and they increased by only 0.79 strokes if they lost 10 yds or more. Its maybe 10 yds gains only about 1 stroke or less.
Also to point out some of the apparent gain in distance may be an illusion secondary to hittting the ball straighter as a ball will run furthur on the fairway than in the rough so an apparent average gain in distance from the tee may be in part due to hitting more fairways/ light rough.
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sjw
Well-known member
I've generally hit driver better recently and I'm sure it's no coincidence that my scores have been coming down. Even if I'm slightly wayward, I'm hitting a wedge out of the rough better than a 7 iron.
I should also say my putting has been worse than ever and my scores have _still_ been coming down!
sjw
Well-known member
That's still a gain in distance in my book...
Backache
Assistant Pro
Yes it is and I don't have any doubts that distance gains help scoring. My point was that 10 yds gain in distance does not equal 1.8 gain in strokes it will be somewhat less on average from the stats provided. Though it could be as much or more for very short hitters who stand to gain more.
D
Deleted member 31467
Guest
The problem with club golfers is they hit 1 drive 250 yards, the next one 200, then 230 etc so how do they know when they've gained 10 yards.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
It's called an 'average'.
Backache
Assistant Pro
Even then you have to watch out, Lou Stagner who provides a lot of these stats will very sensibly often use the median rather than the mean which is what is generally understood as the average.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
The mean average would be lower than the median though wouldn't it? You're much more likely to be 50 shorts on a bad drive than 50 yards long on a good drive, so in a mean average that short one would lower the overall total.
