The great drive for dough putt for show debate thread.

[HampshireHog]

My current strokes gained status after 12 rounds in 2023 against a scratch golfer; bear in mind I am currently a 16 index (although have not submitted a score since Oct and have been having lessons sporadically through winter)
Tee shots: -6.00
Approaches: -6.05
Short Game: +0.25
Putting: -0.95

Interesting post, I was wondering what you needed to track all these stats.

 

[Imurg]

But not as frustrating as watching me

I don't even know where to start with you....

 

[Backache]

Interesting post, I was wondering what you needed to track all these stats.

There are several systems which offer it ,Shotscope, Arcos or self entering with Golf metrics and others.
Must admit I have Shotscope a try but gave up when there were clear nonsense results and I bought new clubs and didn't think it worth getting new sensors

 

[Springveldt]

Interesting post, I was wondering what you needed to track all these stats.

You can get Shot Scope or Arccos that will track most of it automatically for you but you will need to edit the putting as gps isn’t accurate enough yet.

You can also enter it manually into Golf Metrics app but you would still need some sort of gps device to measure your shots.

 

[Slab]

Played with three French lads today, all were about half my age (or more) and 4-5 shots lower in handicap
The only difference in our games was they were longer off every tee giving them 'easier' second shots (which were also longer)

The nub is I outscored them because they were too wayward

Length 'should' equal lower scoring

 

[Backsticks]

Played with three French lads today, all were about half my age (or more) and 4-5 shots lower in handicap
The only difference in our games was they were longer off every tee giving them 'easier' second shots (which were also longer)

The nub is I outscored them because they were too wayward

Length 'should' equal lower scoring

And, as you have shown in this example, does equal lower scoring. Not in a sample of a single round or every time - thats the variability of golf. But overall it does. As you say, they are longer than you and 4-5 shots lower hc than you with their shorter second shots helping them. So both you and they conform to the expectation. You probably needs about 20-30 yards extra length to reach their level.

 

[evemccc]

Are you suggesting Boycott wouldn’t get in the current England test team?????

I’d like to see Jason Roy and Butler and the happy-slappy brigade face Lillee, Thompson and Malcolm Marshall in their pomp, whilst playing on uncovered pitches

I wonder what base todays openers would build for the middle-order, and how much shine off the new ball they would take..surely a key role of a Test opener?

 

[Albo]

I’d like to see Jason Roy and Butler and the happy-slappy brigade face Lillee, Thompson and Malcolm Marshall in their pomp, whilst playing on uncovered pitches

I wonder what base todays openers would build for the middle-order, and how much shine off the new ball they would take..surely a key role of a Test opener?

Yes it’s a huge difference recently.
It’d be interesting to see how an overly attacking opening partnership would go against some of the great attacks, I would imagine Lillee, Marshall et al would take badly to being attacked like that and fight back with some aggressive bowling

 

[sunshine]

The Course rating system means it is meant to be designed precisely so that it does. How well it works I don't actually know.

There isn’t a system to rate the difficulty of courses for a handicap player. I don’t believe SSS or CR really grasp the difference in difficulty of golf courses, especially courses with tricky greens.

 

[sunshine]

When I played Sawgrass I was off 4 handicap.
The difference off the Tips to the tees we played would make it almost impossible for most handicap golfers to get round on their handicap.
It’s not just length.
The tees are tucked away in the trees ,you have to shape the ball both ways.
There is water everywhere you don’t really see on the tv.
if you hit it in the wrong place your knackered and just playing for position.
off the tips most won’t get on the par fours in two..
Then you have to negotiate the greens

Ironically I found 17th the easy hole.

if you only hit it 200yds your going to struggle imo.

Thanks, great post I would love to play Sawgrass. Must have been a super experience.

 

[clubchamp98]

Thanks, great post I would love to play Sawgrass. Must have been a super experience.

It was .
standing on some of the tees is goose bumps time.
18th is the best hole by a mile. Scary tee shot.

 

[Jason.H]

There isn’t a system to rate the difficulty of courses for a handicap player. I don’t believe SSS or CR really grasp the difference in difficulty of golf courses, especially courses with tricky greens.

I wouldn’t get hung up on course ratings. Course difficulty changes daily with the weather, look at TPC this week as an example. Rain overnight with low wind and a course record , the day before level par was a good score even for a tour pro.

 

[TigerTime]

Thats a great shortgame! Surprised your hc isnt lower. You should be 11-12. Maybe strategy ? Do you aim for the middle of all greens, away from tee trouble even if it brings the rough on one side into play ?
Or you are primed to drop a few shots once better weather comes !

Yeah to be fair the handicap probably would have dropped another 2/3/4 strokes if I had been submitting cards through autumn/winter. So I am expecting a bit of a drop when the comps get going again. But the key for me to get down to single figures and then the lower single figures will be gaining more distance. Can do that with a bit better technique but the most efficient way as you know will be through speed training and working out.

Strategy is an interesting one. I don't do anything really stupid, for example I take my medicine and chip out if I have to etc. I understand the basic premise of different lies and slopes on the course but I tend to struggle with those kinda shots but I've got a playing lesson soon so will be working on that. But I could plan ahead a bit more. I'm playing in a bit today and that's something I'm gonna be focusing on this round, no swing thoughts but curious to see what I can score. My coach said last week that my ball striking has improved a bit and I just need to plot my way around and work back from the green a bit more to leave myself good distances etc so going to have some of that today.

 

[TigerTime]

Interesting post, I was wondering what you needed to track all these stats.

I use Shotscope GPS and club tags. Seems to be hit or miss whether people have issues but generally speaking I don't have much editing to do after the round. It misses the odd shot but if you've a sharp memory you can fix it quite easily post round.

 

[Deleted member 31467]

I played with a 21hcap twice last week, he entered all his data into Golfmetrics. Told me after the 2nd round that in round 1 his driving was equivalent to a 42hcap and round 2 it was a 12hcap.

 

[Backsticks]

Strategy is an interesting one. I don't do anything really stupid, for example I take my medicine and chip out if I have to etc.

I mean more playing to the true likelyhood of where you will hit the ball.
Things like :
- ignore the flag position. Aim at the spot that minimises chances of trouble, not maximises closest to hole. If in doubt, the middle of the green. If water/ob/etc on one side, aim for the opposite side of the green - even if that means half your shots will miss the green
- if using a GPS, club yourself on the back if the green distance, not the middle, and certainly not the flag.
- hit driver at every opportunity. Only down club if your driver distance will put you in a danger zone, and a shorter club takes away danger zones
-aim driver shot to opposite side of a fairway if water or OB along one side. Dont aim down the middle. ie. accept a few more ball in the rough, but fewer OB.
- dont use a 60deg wedge
- know your carry distance with all clubs. Think carry distance on shots to green, not total.
- Dont try and curve the ball according to the shot. Whatever your normal shape, play it always.

Lou Stagner, or Decade, type strategy.

 

[HampshireHog]

I played with a 21hcap twice last week, he entered all his data into Golfmetrics. Told me after the 2nd round that in round 1 his driving was equivalent to a 42hcap and round 2 it was a 12hcap.

So it averages out. I don’t know many consistent golfers let alone 21 hcappers.

 

[Backsticks]

I played with a 21hcap twice last week, he entered all his data into Golfmetrics. Told me after the 2nd round that in round 1 his driving was equivalent to a 42hcap and round 2 it was a 12hcap.

You typically need at least 8 or 10 rounds of data to see any useful trends. Maybe more like 20 rounds for a 21hc.

 

[Deleted member 31467]

So it averages out. I don’t know many consistent golfers let alone 21 hcappers.

Yes which pretty much confirms my view. If you are so inconsistent what is the point of recording stats. One day you have 26 putts and think you are a great putter but missed every green and had to chip, next round you hit 16 greens and take 34 putts and think you're a rubbish putter

 

[sunshine]

I wouldn’t get hung up on course ratings. Course difficulty changes daily with the weather, look at TPC this week as an example. Rain overnight with low wind and a course record , the day before level par was a good score even for a tour pro.

That’s PCC which is another weak system but that is a whole other debate