The great drive for dough putt for show debate thread.

[Voyager EMH]

Absolutely no requirement for that.

That's given me a thought.
As I head towards my 70s and beyond, my distance off the tee is sure to decrease.
I wonder what my handicap will be when my maximum tee-shot is 199 yards?
I'm not in any rush to find out.

 

[clubchamp98]

At my course if a player could only hit it a max of 200 yards off the tee you would be left with the following yardages to the middle of the green. This is obviously ignoring any wind which is significant where I play, or elevation which is only really a factor on a few holes.

Also, we need to take into consideration that if someone is maxed out at 200 off the tee, they will more than like struggle to hit it 190 off the deck. Even assuming they find the centre of every fairway with every tee shot. There is probably 6 holes they aren’t getting to in 2. And others that are borderline. There is a couple that will require a wood or long iron and only one of the par 3s will be comfortable. One is 197 uphill so they aren’t reaching that and the others around 170.

155
197
336*
207
186
325*
236
172
357*
104
189
190
252
357*

* denotes par 5

One would need the best short game on the planet to attain a low single figure handicap being so short off the tee.

I agree with this .
I used to use a wooden persimmon driver pre metal woods .
the main thing for me now is with the advances in tech most clubs have lengthened the course over the years
not all at once but over the years adding 25 yds here 15 yds there.
but being brutally honest on My home course now to be low cap you need 240/250 min .

 

[Albo]

At my course if a player could only hit it a max of 200 yards off the tee you would be left with the following yardages to the middle of the green. This is obviously ignoring any wind which is significant where I play, or elevation which is only really a factor on a few holes.

Also, we need to take into consideration that if someone is maxed out at 200 off the tee, they will more than like struggle to hit it 190 off the deck. Even assuming they find the centre of every fairway with every tee shot. There is probably 6 holes they aren’t getting to in 2. And others that are borderline. There is a couple that will require a wood or long iron and only one of the par 3s will be comfortable. One is 197 uphill so they aren’t reaching that and the others around 170.

155
197
336*
207
186
325*
236
172
357*
104
189
190
252
357*

* denotes par 5

One would need the best short game on the planet to attain a low single figure handicap being so short off the tee.

They will only hit ~50% of the fairways in all likelihood meaning even less are reachable.
And with a 200y drive they are likely hitting something like 6i into the first and the only other hole less than that will be a 9i or PW.

Now given the GIR stats from 155 on tour are 66%ish your 10hc trying to get to low single figures are less than 50%.

I think this mythical person is hitting 5 greens on a good day

 

[Backache]

Yes, the numbers would be consistent with your speculation. They would lose the 4.5 shots gained on driving. And some of the 9 on approach. Far from it all though - they would still be just hitting a pair of 7 irons to a 380yd hole for example. But wouldnt be making par 5s in two. So maybe lose 3-4 shots.
Short game and putting the same.
So they would be about scratch. I dont think any would even go as high as 4.

Not sure that they would lose that much on the driving , they would be missing far fewer fairways. They might lose half a shot on the greens compared to their normal because although tour greens might be tough for an amateur the pros do better on them than standard greens because they are so true.
They could also make up a bit on the short game because they would have a few more opportunites for it.

 

[Backsticks]

At my course if a player could only hit it a max of 200 yards off the tee you would be left with the following yardages to the middle of the green. This is obviously ignoring any wind which is significant where I play, or elevation which is only really a factor on a few holes.

Also, we need to take into consideration that if someone is maxed out at 200 off the tee, they will more than like struggle to hit it 190 off the deck. Even assuming they find the centre of every fairway with every tee shot. There is probably 6 holes they aren’t getting to in 2. And others that are borderline. There is a couple that will require a wood or long iron and only one of the par 3s will be comfortable. One is 197 uphill so they aren’t reaching that and the others around 170.

155
197
336*
207
186
325*
236
172
357*
104
189
190
252
357*

* denotes par 5

One would need the best short game on the planet to attain a low single figure handicap being so short off the tee.

I dont think thats correct. You would likely be scratch. 200 yards is a 7 or 6 iron for those guys. So my earlier calculation still stands. They will hit their 6i 200 no problem off the deck.

Of your holes above, they would be hitting :
W
6i
6i gap wedge
6i chip
7i
7i wedge
6i chip
8i
6i wedge
Sw
7i
7i
6i pw
6i pw

With all their 6i or 7i in the fairway and out of trouble, thats a lot of pars, and 2-3 birdies. They would still settle at scratch.

 

[Steve Wilkes]

At my course if a player could only hit it a max of 200 yards off the tee you would be left with the following yardages to the middle of the green. This is obviously ignoring any wind which is significant where I play, or elevation which is only really a factor on a few holes.

Also, we need to take into consideration that if someone is maxed out at 200 off the tee, they will more than like struggle to hit it 190 off the deck. Even assuming they find the centre of every fairway with every tee shot. There is probably 6 holes they aren’t getting to in 2. And others that are borderline. There is a couple that will require a wood or long iron and only one of the par 3s will be comfortable. One is 197 uphill so they aren’t reaching that and the others around 170.

155
197
336*
207
186
325*
236
172
357*
104
189
190
252
357*

* denotes par 5

One would need the best short game on the planet to attain a low single figure handicap being so short off the tee.

What's the Course Rating from those Tees

 

[BiMGuy]

What's the Course Rating from those Tees

72.7 @ 6758 yards

The next tees is 71.6 @ 6566. Even off these tees someone isn’t getting to low single figures hitting it 200 yards off the tee unless they have John Rahm taking their second shots.

 

[Steve Wilkes]

72.7 @ 6758 yards

The next tees is 71.6 @ 6566. Even off these tees someone isn’t getting to low single figures hitting it 200 yards off the tee unless they have John Rahm taking their second shots.

In Essence I agree with what you a stating, but playing Devils Advocate, if you put a scratch player in those positions 200yds off the tee, Level Par on the 3's and level on the 5's he/she would only need to par 4 of the 8 par 4s to be under 5 handicap, unlikely I agree but a small percent of very good iron and short game players could do it

 

[Jason.H]

Long approach shots often miss the greens, it’s where the best players get up and down. Putting for par saves keeps a good score going. All the great golfers have been great putters.

 

[BiMGuy]

In Essence I agree with what you a stating, but playing Devils Advocate, if you put a scratch player in those positions 200yds off the tee, Level Par on the 3's and level on the 5's he/she would only need to par 4 of the 8 par 4s to be under 5 handicap, unlikely I agree but a small percent of very good iron and short game players could do it

I don’t disagree with that. But if our hypothetical player is only capable of hitting it 200 off the tee. They are likely to be hitting wood or long irons into the greens. They would probably need tour level accuracy and a short game to match.

 

[Backsticks]

They will only hit ~50% of the fairways in all likelihood meaning even less are reachable.
And with a 200y drive they are likely hitting something like 6i into the first and the only other hole less than that will be a 9i or PW.

Now given the GIR stats from 155 on tour are 66%ish your 10hc trying to get to low single figures are less than 50%.

I think this mythical person is hitting 5 greens on a good day

They are not hitting their driver though. Probably just a 7i to hit it 200 yards. They will likely hit most fairways, any misses will be semi rough, and likely no shots at all will be in any trouble impeding them a short iron to the green.

 

[Neilds]

They are not hitting their driver though. Probably just a 7i to hit it 200 yards. They will likely hit most fairways, any misses will be semi rough, and likely no shots at all will be in any trouble impeding them a short iron to the green.

Who are you referring to as ‘they’? In the example BIMguy is using, ’they’ is a golfer who can only hit a driver 200 yards off the tee. I suspect that your ‘they’ is a tour golfer as you keep saying they can hit 6i 200 yards. Maybe if you both start using the same benchmark we may solve this age old dilemma

 

[Backsticks]

Who are you referring to as ‘they’? In the example BIMguy is using, ’they’ is a golfer who can only hit a driver 200 yards off the tee. I suspect that your ‘they’ is a tour golfer as you keep saying they can hit 6i 200 yards. Maybe if you both start using the same benchmark we may solve this age old dilemma

We are discussing Voyager's hypothetical about the top 50 tour golfer who is limited to a max of the club that they hit 200 yards. They are still a 115 ball speed driver player, but only have up to 6i in their bag for this discussion.

 

[Backsticks]

Average Distances for PGA Tour Players :
Club Average Distance
Driver 285 - 321 yds (Tour Average: 299.8 yds)
3 Wood 243 - 304 yds
5 Wood 230 - 288 yds
3 Iron 212 - 265 yds
4 Iron 203 - 254 yds
5 Iron 194 - 243 yds
6 Iron 183 - 229 yds
7 Iron 172 - 215 yds
8 Iron 160 - 200 yds
9 Iron 148 - 185 yds
Pitching Wedge 136 - 170 yds

 

[BiMGuy]

We are discussing Voyager's hypothetical about the top 50 tour golfer who is limited to a max of the club that they hit 200 yards. They are still a 115 ball speed driver player, but only have up to 6i in their bag for this discussion.

I think there have been crossed wires. I was responding to someone saying a player could get to low single figures being short off the tee. I used the 200 yard limit as it had been mentioned before.

A tour pro could probably shoot a good score being limited to 200 yards of the tee.

 

[Backsticks]

The 200 yard hitter max with driver scenario is a different one, and I dont think they can get to scratch at all. Low single figures quite a stretch. There may be cases, but too few to really consider it possible.
They will give away at least 4 of their driver shots gained on distance alone, even if their 200 drive is tour level accurate (and all the evidence is that you will not be as accurate if you only have head speed to hit it 200). The big loss will be in approach : I would say at least 8 shots. So at best that would take a +7 pro to playing off 3. And they would need tour level chipping and putting to be able to play off 3. Technically possible, true, but what 200 yard hitter is going to devote themselves to developing and maintaining a tour level short game, when they likely arent even making their amateur club team. More realistically a really top level short game player can get into single figures, but they are a real outlier. And getting to scratch is just beyond the beyond.

 

[Albo]

They are not hitting their driver though. Probably just a 7i to hit it 200 yards. They will likely hit most fairways, any misses will be semi rough, and likely no shots at all will be in any trouble impeding them a short iron to the green.

Wha? Who is hitting a 7i 200 other than the boys on tour?

 

[Backsticks]

Wha? Who is hitting a 7i 200 other than the boys on tour?

Yes, only they are. But the question got a little warped along the line. The question was what would a tour player shoot if they were limited to their 200 club. But the discussion evolved. Im not sure where. Maybe misunderstanding.

 

[Albo]

Yes, only they are. But the question got a little warped along the line. The question was what would a tour player shoot if they were limited to their 200 club. But the discussion evolved. Im not sure where. Maybe misunderstanding.

Yeah I see that now.
I think a tour player limited to a 200y club could get close to scratch , but a normal say 10hc player limited to 200 would struggle to keep his or her 10hc

 

[Voyager EMH]

Yeah, there have been two things running in parallel here.
There's the tour player restricted to 200 yards
and the response to "You will not reach low singles if you only hit it 200yds " that was such an extremely upsetting statement for someone to read.