The future of golf 2

[backwoodsman]

Not wanting to hijack the main thread so posting separately. I'm not so much interested in the pro's and con's of a booking system but more the practicalities of how it would work for us. I'll explain.

We're a private members club. Members and guests only at weekends, green fees and societies can play in the week. No booking system except for weekend competitions which is a sign-up sheet in the foyer. Roll up and play - we don't even have a ballchute. We have three start points with a rolling programme of times determining when/where 2balls and 3/4balls can start. Course opens at 8am. Main issue would centre round the weekend swindle which can be anything from 16 to 36 people. Draw for teams is at 8:15 then everyone out and away. Even if a big group, would be rare for everyone to be not away by 9. Currently rare for swindle to have wait for earlier groups, and not often that later groups have long wait behind. Things seem to work ok.

Only real issue I'm aware of is Fridays are popular both with societies and members, so roll up and play not always possible. So how could a booking system help (or hinder) - especially in (hopefully) accommodating the popular but variable sized swindle. There's a smaller afternon one too but what works in the morning would presumably work pm too.

Thoughts or suggestions? Ta.

 

[Duckster]

Would it have to be every single tee time set in stone, or could you simply set up certain time periods to keep the "rock up and play" situation?

We have members times everyday (morning and afternoon) where you can't book a tee time. Outside of these times it is bookable by both members and visitors.

 

[Foxholer]

Doesn't seem worthwhile to have a booking system just for a small amount of inconvenience occasionally on a Friday - when you know that's a possibility as well.

As a visitor, I'd far prefer to start on 1st hole, though would accept a 10th tee start. So as long as it's members who are moved - and they have no objection - then stick with status quo!

 

[duncan mackie]

The introduction of a booking system will tend to result in change over time.
An example often seen is for the swindle group to fragment into smaller groups that can manage themselves within the system so that the occasional and newbies no longer join in and the whole concept of roll up dies.
Fridays are definitely becoming the new Sat and are the main members guest day at most clubs as well as the highest society demand .

 

[backwoodsman]

It's the potential decline of the swindle that would be the most worrying. It is a very welcoming place for new members, and really good for just turning up to get a game in competitive good company. Something like 120 different people played in it at some stage last year. I've no major problem with booking systems but would be keen to see 'swindles' safe.

No major threat of a booking system yet, but I know the just departed club manager wanted something - for management purposes which is understandable. Only reason he didn't push too hard was an apparent difficulty of finding a system that could cope with three starting points?

 

[backwoodsman]

Would it have to be every single tee time set in stone, or could you simply set up certain time periods to keep the "rock up and play" situation?

We have members times everyday (morning and afternoon) where you can't book a tee time. Outside of these times it is bookable by both members and visitors.

If this sort of thing is workable, it would be OK by me - I think.

 

[Slab]

The introduction of a booking system will tend to result in change over time.
An example often seen is for the swindle group to fragment into smaller groups that can manage themselves within the system so that the occasional and newbies no longer join in and the whole concept of roll up dies.
Fridays are definitely becoming the new Sat and are the main members guest day at most clubs as well as the highest society demand .

It's the potential decline of the swindle that would be the most worrying. It is a very welcoming place for new members, and really good for just turning up to get a game in competitive good company. Something like 120 different people played in it at some stage last year. I've no major problem with booking systems but would be keen to see 'swindles' safe.

No major threat of a booking system yet, but I know the just departed club manager wanted something - for management purposes which is understandable. Only reason he didn't push too hard was an apparent difficulty of finding a system that could cope with three starting points?

But if the roll-up/swindle etc is run or sanctioned by the club then the obvious thing would be for them to block out 60/90 minutes on the booking system for when its played, don't really see why it should decline or die

it would look no different to a society booking

 

[Deleted member 18588]

But if the roll-up/swindle etc is run or sanctioned by the club then the obvious thing would be for them to block out 60/90 minutes on the booking system for when its played, don't really see why it should decline or die

it would look no different to a society booking

Surely the whole point of roll ups is that they are not organised or specifically sanctioned by the Club. After all if a group of members wish to get together in this way and they conform to Club Rules they need no approval.

Like the OP ours is a members' club and we operate an online booking system for comps only. It does not seem to create any problems for members who are well aware of when the roll ups/swindles gather. None are exclusive and all members are free and welcome to join in.

 

[Slab]

Surely the whole point of roll ups is that they are not organised or specifically sanctioned by the Club. After all if a group of members wish to get together in this way and they conform to Club Rules they need no approval.

Like the OP ours is a members' club and we operate an online booking system for comps only. It does not seem to create any problems for members who are well aware of when the roll ups/swindles gather. None are exclusive and all members are free and welcome to join in.

Is that the same as saying that as members if they don't want to join in they are not free to play the course at the time of the unofficial swindle/roll-up

Edit:
You say "After all if a group of members wish to get together in this way and they conform to Club Rules they need no approval"

So one or more persons decides to block book what is probably a prime sought after tee time week after week month after month for an unofficial group of unknown size and that's supposed to be ok with the rest of the membership as long as everyone knows when it is

Seems not ideal really unless you are involved in the roll up

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Is that the same as saying that as members if they don't want to join in they are not free to play the course at the time of the unofficial swindle/roll-up

Edit:
You say "After all if a group of members wish to get together in this way and they conform to Club Rules they need no approval"

So one or more persons decides to block book what is probably a prime sought after tee time week after week month after month for an unofficial group of unknown size and that's supposed to be ok with the rest of the membership as long as everyone knows when it is

Seems not ideal really unless you are involved in the roll up

Please read my post.

There is no booking system at our club other than for official comps, the remainder of the time it is "first come, first served" with two tees available for starting.

It suits the members but if it didn't as the Club is a members' club and, therefore, a democracy any member is free to propose a motion at the AGM to change things.

No visitors or societies on Saturdays, small societies only on Sunday afternoons.

Seems to work for us.

 

[duncan mackie]

But if the roll-up/swindle etc is run or sanctioned by the club then the obvious thing would be for them to block out 60/90 minutes on the booking system for when its played, don't really see why it should decline or die

it would look no different to a society booking

the issue is that it's an unknown number - whilst it exists within a larger free space it's fine ie 20-30 aiming to go out from 0800 when the first bookable time (society etc) is from 1000h then all works well. It doesn't matter to anyone whether it uses 5 or 8 booking slots. However, if it's a matter of booking it within bookable time you get pressure to book (say) 5 tee times; then the first time 22 people turn up you find that 4 of them won't the next time but will make their own booking (just to be safe and considerate) which becomes 8 with their immediate friends that also prefer to play 30 minutes later etc etc and the thing fragments.

Over time it gets reborn

 

[Slab]

Please read my post.

There is no booking system at our club other than for official comps, the remainder of the time it is "first come, first served" with two tees available for starting.

It suits the members but if it didn't as the Club is a members' club and, therefore, a democracy any member is free to propose a motion at the AGM to change things.

No visitors or societies on Saturdays, small societies only on Sunday afternoons.

Seems to work for us.

Ok just trying to understand as I'm not in a roll up.

So at your place it is possible for a couple of groups to turn up interspersed with the arrival of the roll up guys & then go out in turn in the middle of a roll up but not be part of the roll up group?

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Ok just trying to understand as I'm not in a roll up.

So at your place it is possible for a couple of groups to turn up interspersed with the arrival of the roll up guys & then go out in turn in the middle of a roll up but not be part of the roll up group?

As an example, to be in the Sunday roll-up you need to be outside the pro shop before 8.30 to be allocated a number as the draw is done bang on 8.30.

Therefore, if someone does not wish to play in the roll-up and they arrive just after 8.30 they would have to wait for the roll -up to get away before they could start from the first tee as all the roll-up players (not usually more than 18 or 20 so five groups) are already there ahead of them.

They could, however, start from the tenth.

Anyone there before 8.30, of course, has priority over the roll-up even if due to having to wait they start after 8.30.

So on a "first come, first served" basis the roll=up has no more standing than any other member.

 

[Slab]

the issue is that it's an unknown number - whilst it exists within a larger free space it's fine ie 20-30 aiming to go out from 0800 when the first bookable time (society etc) is from 1000h then all works well. It doesn't matter to anyone whether it uses 5 or 8 booking slots. However, if it's a matter of booking it within bookable time you get pressure to book (say) 5 tee times; then the first time 22 people turn up you find that 4 of them won't the next time but will make their own booking (just to be safe and considerate) which becomes 8 with their immediate friends that also prefer to play 30 minutes later etc etc and the thing fragments.

Over time it gets reborn

If its likely to fragment & die etc it does sound a little bit like people end up playing in existing roll ups simply to get a game at a certain time of day & not because its a roll up/swindle and in fact due to the fragmentation it might even suggest the roll up may not be required at all and a booking system would actually suit better?

 

[Slab]

As an example, to be in the Sunday roll-up you need to be outside the pro shop before 8.30 to be allocated a number as the draw is done bang on 8.30.

Therefore, if someone does not wish to play in the roll-up and they arrive just after 8.30 they would have to wait for the roll -up to get away before they could start from the first tee as all the roll-up players (not usually more than 18 or 20 so five groups) are already there ahead of them.

They could, however, start from the tenth.

Anyone there before 8.30, of course, has priority over the roll-up even if due to having to wait they start after 8.30.

So on a "first come, first served" basis the roll=up has no more standing than any other member.

Ok think I'm with you, (thanks for taking the time) so 2 maybe 3 groups want off the first tee but not in roll up and turn up at 8:20, these groups will all go ahead of the roll up which will push back their start time until all the non roll up groups are away?

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Ok think I'm with you, (thanks for taking the time) so 2 maybe 3 groups want off the first tee but not in roll up and turn up at 8:20, these groups will all go ahead of the roll up which will push back their start time until all the non roll up groups are away?

Yes, in those circumstances the roll up has no priority. All members are equal.

 

[Rooter]

All members are equal.

Except some members are more equal than others. (or at least they think they are!)

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Except some members are more equal than others. (or at least they think they are!)

Maybe at some clubs but not at Kirby Muxloe.

 

[backwoodsman]

If its likely to fragment & die etc it does sound a little bit like people end up playing in existing roll ups simply to get a game at a certain time of day & not because its a roll up/swindle and in fact due to the fragmentation it might even suggest the roll up may not be required at all and a booking system would actually suit better?

Not sure this is the case at ours. People either want to play in the swindle, or they want to play with their mates. If the latter, they tend not to turn up at "swindle time".

It helps that we have three starts - one of which a swindle can't use as one start is always set aside for two balls. As an aside, is there anyone out there who also has three start point - and has a booking system?

As Duncan says, it's the variable numbers that are likely to be an issue. If one had to book a specific number of slots, one wouldn't wish to book more than is needed. But you then get caught out with occasional high turnout.

 

[upsidedown]

We are a private member club using BRS for all tee times and have two main fiddles/roll ups. One run for everyone and the seniors run one on a Friday.

The one for everyone is on Weds and Friday between 9.30 and 11.00 approx. It's your responsibility to put your name down in any of those tee times ( not reserved and on Friday there are 4 members teeing off in the middle of us at 10.34 , our fiddle organiser will make everyone aware of this and any other issues when he does the draw.) 31 names down for Friday.
You need to be in the club house 15 mins before the first tee time for the draw ( balls in a bag ) Full catering on offer.

There will be some that don't turn up so if your name is not down you still should get a game if you turn up on spec and we tend to go off as soon as group in front are out of range on the first rather than our normal 8 minute tee times.

New members are told about this fiddle and the Captain , vice captain and pro will help them if need be . I joined the fiddle when i joined and now play in it regularly and its great fun with lots of good banter flowing.