The Footie Thread

[Neilds]

This is what I was trying to get people to understand, there are different levels at play here. The word legend has different meanings to different people so to quibble over it is a bit daft. The modern generation would all call Robertson a legend because it simply means a memorable player who did very well for the club, essentially. Older generations apparently have it meaning the top handful of players ever to play for the club, in which case, no Robertson wouldn't be there.

I think you would call Greaves and Hoddle 'GOATs' nowadays rather than simply 'legends'.

You whippersnappers and your mauling of the English language

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

For me a legend has to have done something extraordinary. Maradona, Pele, Maldini etc players that do things that transcend their own clubs.

There are then what I would at club level call all time greats for their clubs. Subjective to each fan base and their supporters.

A legend is someone you would name a stand after at your ground.

A great player is someone you would name a section after, or a corporate lounge.

This is a wonderful way to look at it and for me this is where likes of Robertson would go In my other category of “Fan Favourites”. People appreciate them and all they did and might even be their favourite player. But he’s certainly not getting a stand named after him so legendary status is out.

But I’m not a Liverpool fan and no axe to grind with it so they say Robertson is then fairplay.

@Orikoru I would say that doesn’t make Assou-Ekotu a legend but the other category of fan favourite. But I guess Spurs need to clutch at straws

I’m only joking mate my club has very few all time greats , but we do have the mighty Ginge of Dave Kitson

 

[irip]

This is what I was trying to get people to understand, there are different levels at play here. The word legend has different meanings to different people so to quibble over it is a bit daft. The modern generation would all call Robertson a legend because it simply means a memorable player who did very well for the club, essentially. Older generations apparently have it meaning the top handful of players ever to play for the club, in which case, no Robertson wouldn't be there.

I think you would call Greaves and Hoddle 'GOATs' nowadays rather than simply 'legends'.

I think also you can look at players from the past who are still talked about with reverence.
Best, Charlton and Law for United.
Toshack and Keegan or Rush and Dalgleish for Liverpool.

I can’t see people here in 50 years time reminiscing about Robertson and Alison.

Maybe need to setup our own level of greatness within the forum.
We can start with useless and work our way up to GOAT.

Then we can all argue about how many Goats you are allowed

 

[Orikoru]

This is a wonderful way to look at it and for me this is where likes of Robertson would go In my other category of “Fan Favourites”. People appreciate them and all they did and might even be their favourite player. But he’s certainly not getting a stand named after him so legendary status is out.

But I’m not a Liverpool fan and no axe to grind with it so they say Robertson is then fairplay.

@Orikoru I would say that doesn’t make Assou-Ekotu a legend but the other category of fan favourite. But I guess Spurs need to clutch at straws

I’m only joking mate my club has very few all time greats , but we do have the mighty Ginge of Dave Kitson

There you go - for my generation those two terms are pretty much interchangeable.

I don't know if any of you watch Golf Life, but at the start of video Tubes says hello and welcome to all the 'Golf Life Legends' (the viewers). The word doesn't mean what it used to mean.

 

[Orikoru]

I think also you can look at players from the past who are still talked about with reverence.
Best, Charlton and Law for United.
Toshack and Keegan or Rush and Dalgleish for Liverpool.

I can’t see people here in 50 years time reminiscing about Robertson and Alison.

Maybe need to setup our own level of greatness within the forum.
We can start with useless and work our way up to GOAT.

Then we can all argue about how many Goats you are allowed

On this point though I would argue that it's because all those names you highlighted at the top were flair players and goalscorers, and you're comparing them to a left back and a goalie. They're never going to be remembered in quite the same way.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Of those, surely only Gerrard should be in that category? Fowler and Carragher are loved as they are local lads made good but they would not make the best 3rd XI at Liverpool and for that alone, no legend. Owen, nope. No league titles during that time, that's a massive gap for that generation.

Fowler (or God) could find the net blindfolded. Owen isn't fit to tie his boot laces.
However they have had so many wonderful players, Beardsley, Jan Molby, John Aldridge, come to mind

 

[PaulMdj]

He may be a legend to those that follow Liverpool but, for me, a true legend is recognised as such by supporters of other clubs. I could add Dalgliesh, Keegan, Rush and no doubt a few others around that time all of which are recognised outside the bounds of Anfield. Latterly, Fowler, Owen, Gerrard & Carragher.

Robertson in that group? No way, not even close.

Owen being looked at as a legend by Lpool fans died the day he signed for Utd.

 

[Orikoru]

Owen being looked at as a legend by Lpool fans died the day he signed for Utd.

Yeah I was going to say - opinions on the man himself would overcloud any reference to his playing ability. Arguably Fowler was the better goalscorer for Liverpool, but Owen certainly had the better career. (Even if it did peter out a bit early.)

 

[Pin-seeker]

Fowler (or God) could find the net blindfolded. Owen isn't fit to tie his boot laces.
However they have had so many wonderful players, Beardsley, Jan Molby, John Aldridge, come to mind

Fowler 236 app 120 goals
Owen 216 app 118 goals

 

[irip]

On this point though I would argue that it's because all those names you highlighted at the top were flair players and goalscorers, and you're comparing them to a left back and a goalie. They're never going to be remembered in quite the same way.

I do get your point and think the flair players will always stand out and be remembered but when talking about legends that’s the absolute pinnacle.
I would put Robertson in the level below at best.

Has been a great servant and a very good player but for my money not a legend.

I accept I wouldn’t have many legend compared to others though.

Benoit though, you have had a shocker there mate

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Yeah I was going to see - opinions on the man himself would overcloud any reference to his playing ability. Arguably Fowler was the better goalscorer for Liverpool, but Owen certainly had the better career. (Even if it did peter out a bit early.)

The man himself isn't the problem, I never felt he was ever as good as Fowler as a goal scorer.

 

[Orikoru]

I do get your point and think the flair players will always stand out and be remembered but when talking about legends that’s the absolute pinnacle.
I would put Robertson in the level below at best.

Has been a great servant and a very good player but for my money not a legend.

I accept I wouldn’t have many legend compared to others though.

Benoit though, you have had a shocker there mate

To reiterate, the point was the word means very different things to different people. Benoit will be remembered for his hair, wearing odd boots, the fact he got the tube to games, didn't know or care who we were playing against because he had no interest in football outside of playing it for a job, and apparently had a packet of crisps and a croissant for his pre-match meal - what a legend!

 

[Orikoru]

The man himself isn't the problem, I never felt he was ever as good as Fowler as a goal scorer.

Not disagreeing - ex-players from that era say the same, that Fowler was one of the best finishers they've ever seen. But why did Owen have the better career then do you think? Perhaps because the game had evolved to be more about pace, and he had tons of it when he was young?

 

[irip]

Not disagreeing - ex-players from that era say the same, that Fowler was one of the best finishers they've ever seen. But why did Owen have the better career then do you think? Perhaps because the game had evolved to be more about pace, and he had tons of it when he was young?

I think a lot of fans remember their England career where the Liverpool fans remember them at club level.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

I think a lot of fans remember their England career where the Liverpool fans remember them at club level.

Do those same fans remember Trent has the exact same medal haul, a better assist and goals record than that of the Legend Andy Robertson

 

[PaulMdj]

The man himself isn't the problem, I never felt he was ever as good as Fowler as a goal scorer.

At Lpool, Fowler played around 50 games more, but only scored 10 more goals.

Personally I think it was more that Fowler was a local lad and Owen wasn’t that gives him the edge with LPool fans.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Not disagreeing - ex-players from that era say the same, that Fowler was one of the best finishers they've ever seen. But why did Owen have the better career then do you think? Perhaps because the game had evolved to be more about pace, and he had tons of it when he was young?

Owen was also favoured by the England manager of the time as well.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

On this point though I would argue that it's because all those names you highlighted at the top were flair players and goalscorers, and you're comparing them to a left back and a goalie. They're never going to be remembered in quite the same way.

Neville Southall for Everton is undoubtedly a club legend.

Would Pat Jennings not be a club legend for your lot?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Not disagreeing - ex-players from that era say the same, that Fowler was one of the best finishers they've ever seen. But why did Owen have the better career then do you think? Perhaps because the game had evolved to be more about pace, and he had tons of it when he was young?

Owen had more pace

Houllier preferred Owen , Fowler was a “spice boy” and GH wanted them gone

He also had his knee injury


Fowler will always been seen higher than Owen by the fans

 

[Orikoru]

Owen was also favoured by the England manager of the time as well.

Yeah, probably because he kept scoring goals?

Neville Southall for Everton is undoubtedly a club legend.

Would Pat Jennings not be a club legend for your lot?

I dunno, who's that? Before my time.