The Footie Thread

[road2ruin]

Yet again United are shown to be a complete circus behind the scenes. Amorim was given full backing a few months ago but things obviously fell apart and it appears that him leaving then came as a complete shock to the powers that be. The sacking looks as though it was a knee-jerk reaction to his comments suggesting a falling out between himself and the board but there was absolutely no plan in place for his successor.

There is also a large part of the fan base who celebrated Amorim getting sacked as he was the reason for our poor season. Since then we've played 4 at the back, Mainoo has started, Bruno has been in a more advanced role, youth has been given a chance and guess what........absolutely no change, same results and performances. I wasn't necessarily Amorim in but the club made a decision to hire a guy who played a very specific way and then didn't give him the tools to do his job or at the very least should have been aware that he'd probably need a number of windows to get the team as he wanted it as it's just not possible to do everything in one window. Rumours are that Liverpool decided against him for this very reason as they didn't want to make wholesale changes, we on the other hand thought it was a great idea and now we're in this situation. He should have been allowed to do his job with people like Wilcox doing theirs and not getting involved in the coaching side of things.

Personally I certainly saw no point in getting rid at this point in the season, I would have stuck with him until the summer and work behind the scenes to get someone else lined up if you're really not sure if he's the one. At this point I think Wilcox needs to be shown the door, he's definitely not up to it and I think Omar Berada also needs to go, we were told to look at what he'd done at City and how he can help transform us, I cannot see anything he's done right and that actually goes for the entire INEOS lot.

I wouldn't be surprised if we find ourselves in a similar league position to last year come the end of the season given the run we've had over the last month (in theory 'easier' games) and what we've got coming up.

 

[Tashyboy]

Yet again United are shown to be a complete circus behind the scenes. Amorim was given full backing a few months ago but things obviously fell apart and it appears that him leaving then came as a complete shock to the powers that be. The sacking looks as though it was a knee-jerk reaction to his comments suggesting a falling out between himself and the board but there was absolutely no plan in place for his successor.

There is also a large part of the fan base who celebrated Amorim getting sacked as he was the reason for our poor season. Since then we've played 4 at the back, Mainoo has started, Bruno has been in a more advanced role, youth has been given a chance and guess what........absolutely no change, same results and performances. I wasn't necessarily Amorim in but the club made a decision to hire a guy who played a very specific way and then didn't give him the tools to do his job or at the very least should have been aware that he'd probably need a number of windows to get the team as he wanted it as it's just not possible to do everything in one window. Rumours are that Liverpool decided against him for this very reason as they didn't want to make wholesale changes, we on the other hand thought it was a great idea and now we're in this situation. He should have been allowed to do his job with people like Wilcox doing theirs and not getting involved in the coaching side of things.

Personally I certainly saw no point in getting rid at this point in the season, I would have stuck with him until the summer and work behind the scenes to get someone else lined up if you're really not sure if he's the one. At this point I think Wilcox needs to be shown the door, he's definitely not up to it and I think Omar Berada also needs to go, we were told to look at what he'd done at City and how he can help transform us, I cannot see anything he's done right and that actually goes for the entire INEOS lot.

I wouldn't be surprised if we find ourselves in a similar league position to last year come the end of the season given the run we've had over the last month (in theory 'easier' games) and what we've got coming up.

Three people you have mentioned there, Wilcox, the Utd. way Berada, the City way. Amorim, his way. That is three different people with different ideas of how a club and team should be run. Chuck in Scruffy Jim whose football knowledge is at the same level as a golf forummer and you have a recipe for disaster

 

[road2ruin]

Three people you have mentioned there, Wilcox, the Utd. way Berada, the City way. Amorim, his way. That is three different people with different ideas of how a club and team should be run. Chuck in Scruffy Jim whose football knowledge is at the same level as a golf forummer and you have a recipe for disaster

This is the most important 'way' and the United board would have known this and planned accordingly. If you want Amorim then you play his system, you don't (a la Wilcox) start getting involved with team selections and suggesting that he plays 4 at the back. Amorim got rightly criticised for a lot of what has happened over the last 18 months but he also never had the tools to do exactly as he wanted with the team. I honestly feel that an addition in January to the midfield and then another summer window we might have been closer to where he wanted us to be.

There appears to be a feeling amongst a large section of United fans that we have a divine right to be winning leagues and qualifying for Europe and that by changing the manager that would happen. It's not and it's very much a case of 'be careful what you wish for'.

 

[clubchamp98]

We moan when players roll about feigning injury and see players getting annoyed and try and “help” the player to their feet, and now you’re saying “you should not move an injured person etc.”

Ref’s are told to only stop a game for head injuries unless they see it’s a serious injury, but yet they can be 50-60 yds away.

Also it was Sobz who got to Bradley first and if you watch the video, he bends down and then Bradley shuffles back on to the pitch, obviously he and Martinelli must of thought he wasn’t that badly hurt and was trying to waste time.

We can’t have it both ways, either the Refs blow everytime someone rolls around or he doesn’t and we control our frustrations.

Yes I agree the players are their own worst enemies.

But I pointed out you should never move an injured player.
I stand by that and Bradley’s injury could have been made worse.

Anyone doing this in future should be sent off.
Offer your hand to help him up if he declines don’t touch him.

 

[Neilds]

Yes I agree the players are their own worst enemies.

But I pointed out you should never move an injured player.
I stand by that and Bradley’s injury could have been made worse.

Anyone doing this in future should be sent off.
Offer your hand to help him up if he declines don’t touch him.

I think this is a bit of an over reaction. I totally agree that you shouldn't move a person who has a back or neck injury, but when the player is rolling about all over the place, holding a different part of their body then there is absolutely no risk (and probably no injury).

In first aid, you are taught to check and treat the silent, non moving casualties first, they are usually the ones that are most seriously injured. if you are screaming and moving, you are alive.

 

[PaulMdj]

Yes I agree the players are their own worst enemies.

But I pointed out you should never move an injured player.
I stand by that and Bradley’s injury could have been made worse.

Anyone doing this in future should be sent off.
Offer your hand to help him up if he declines don’t touch him.

Who decides they are injured? What is the punishment if an injured player is moved by a team mate?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

There is no need for anyone to try and lift or push an injured player unless of course there is an obvious issue with swallowing tongue etc

Basically use common sense

Martinelli was a clown and he prob won’t do it again

Just leave them alone

 

[Swango1980]

This is the most important 'way' and the United board would have known this and planned accordingly. If you want Amorim then you play his system, you don't (a la Wilcox) start getting involved with team selections and suggesting that he plays 4 at the back. Amorim got rightly criticised for a lot of what has happened over the last 18 months but he also never had the tools to do exactly as he wanted with the team. I honestly feel that an addition in January to the midfield and then another summer window we might have been closer to where he wanted us to be.

There appears to be a feeling amongst a large section of United fans that we have a divine right to be winning leagues and qualifying for Europe and that by changing the manager that would happen. It's not and it's very much a case of 'be careful what you wish for'.

Both posts pretty much 100% sum up how I feel as well.

It feels his (sudden) sacking was purely down to his thinly disguised suggestion that the likes of Wilcox were starting to insist how he "manages" the team. That is not the job of Wilcox. The job of Wilcox is to bring in the people to manage and coach the players into as successful a side as possible. If things don't work out, then start looking at alternative options. Have a plan when making a change. DON'T get involved yourself in telling your manager/coach how to do his job (the only time to discuss football philosophy and vision is at the job interview). As much as it is fair to be critical of Amorim (and he criticised himself as well, no one is perfect), there is a pretty high chance that Amorim is a miles better manager/coach than Wilcox.

I, for one, supported the fact that Utd had to streamline their staff. It isn't nice when people are made redundant, but often it is something that must happen. Especially when a business suffers significant decline. More jobs are created during growth, more are lost during decline. And it seems that player wages have been cut significantly as well, meaning that apart from Casemiro (who is on vastly more than everyone, and signed before the new regime) and Bruno, everyone else are on a much lower fee. But, is seems crazy that a knee jerk reaction by Wilcox apparently instantly costs the club £10 million.

Can't help but feel if Wilcox was sacked a month or two ago, it would have saved the club a lot of hassle. Bring in someone else. Give Amorim until the end of the season, and actually have a plan in place whichever way you want to go. Not that I'd have much confidence that the Club would bring in the right person to do that role I suppose.

Perhaps I'm being harsh on Wilcox, we barely ever hear from him and I've no idea of what really goes on behind the scenes. But it is difficult to have much faith in him right now.

 

[Swango1980]

There is no need for anyone to try and lift or push an injured player unless of course there is an obvious issue with swallowing tongue etc

Basically use common sense

Martinelli was a clown and he prob won’t do it again

Just leave them alone

I think the point you make is irrelevant.

Martinelli was NOT aware that Bradley was injured at the time. I also can't imagine that ANY player would try to push or drag players off the pitch if they knew they were actually injured. At least your manager has used common sense when speaking about the incident.

 

[Swango1980]

Yet again United are shown to be a complete circus behind the scenes. Amorim was given full backing a few months ago but things obviously fell apart and it appears that him leaving then came as a complete shock to the powers that be. The sacking looks as though it was a knee-jerk reaction to his comments suggesting a falling out between himself and the board but there was absolutely no plan in place for his successor.

There is also a large part of the fan base who celebrated Amorim getting sacked as he was the reason for our poor season. Since then we've played 4 at the back, Mainoo has started, Bruno has been in a more advanced role, youth has been given a chance and guess what........absolutely no change, same results and performances. I wasn't necessarily Amorim in but the club made a decision to hire a guy who played a very specific way and then didn't give him the tools to do his job or at the very least should have been aware that he'd probably need a number of windows to get the team as he wanted it as it's just not possible to do everything in one window. Rumours are that Liverpool decided against him for this very reason as they didn't want to make wholesale changes, we on the other hand thought it was a great idea and now we're in this situation. He should have been allowed to do his job with people like Wilcox doing theirs and not getting involved in the coaching side of things.

Personally I certainly saw no point in getting rid at this point in the season, I would have stuck with him until the summer and work behind the scenes to get someone else lined up if you're really not sure if he's the one. At this point I think Wilcox needs to be shown the door, he's definitely not up to it and I think Omar Berada also needs to go, we were told to look at what he'd done at City and how he can help transform us, I cannot see anything he's done right and that actually goes for the entire INEOS lot.

I wouldn't be surprised if we find ourselves in a similar league position to last year come the end of the season given the run we've had over the last month (in theory 'easier' games) and what we've got coming up.

Specifically on this point, going back to a back 4 worries me greatly (even though it is a system I would prefer generally).

People have very short memories. They seem to forget that when we had played with a back 4 under Ole, and sometimes ETH, teams could counter us so easily. They would just run through our team like a knife through butter, and we could concede 3,4,5,etc goals against pretty much anyone. With 3 at the back, it really becomes 5 at the back. It is defensive, but we are harder to break down. I know people want Man Utd to play attacking football, but the players are simply not good enough. Yes, some good attacking players, but built on a weak foundation.

If we go to 4 at the back (which is likely, due to the negativity on 3 at the back from media and press, and Wilcox will probably tell them how he wants them to play), I can see us getting battered more frequently. Dalot is absolutely useless, so we will be vunerable on our right side. We have lots of other inexperienced players in our backline. Our midfield is slow, and thus impotent. And Bruno is indisciplined, and so it probably makes it difficult for the team to settle into any type of structure. Once the team pushes up, on the occasions we misplace a pass, teams are going to look to open the floodgates and stream forward.

To avoid that, I can see the incoming manager giving us a back 4 on paper, but it'll end up being a back 8, with the defenders and all midfielders having to stay deep, for fear of the opposition getting in behind us.

Also, going to a back 4, I suspect that could be the end of Harry Maguire at Man Utd? Certainly if we don;t get quality, fast defensive midfielders to help him out.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Who decides they are injured? What is the punishment if an injured player is moved by a team mate?

Reckon the best people to decide if someone is injured will be the teams medical staff

All the players just leave them all unless someone is there to re assure the player like Dom was doing

It shouldn’t even be an issue but as we are aware some players are a bit daft and in this instance it was Martinelli.

Let’s hope it’s lessons learned

 

[PaulMdj]

Reckon the best people to decide if someone is injured will be the teams medical staff

All the players just leave them all unless someone is there to re assure the player like Dom was doing

It shouldn’t even be an issue but as we are aware some players are a bit daft and in this instance it was Martinelli.

Let’s hope it’s lessons learned

Sometimes I don’t think you actually watch PL Football!

The current rules are play continues unless it is a head injury or the Ref decides it’s a serious injury.

How many times have we seen a player pretend to be injured and an opposition player tries to drag them to their feet?

As for your “reassure” a player like Dom was doing, then why did Bradley shuffle back on to the pitch after Dom spoke to him?

Martinelli was 100% out of order, but I believe he didn’t think Bradley was injured as he saw him move back on to the pitch and thought he was time wasting! Martinelli should of been sent off for 2 yellows imo.

Also after Martinelli shoved him, Bradley again lifted himself back on the pitch!

All teams have players that cheat and if we are going to let players roll about only let medical teams make decisions, players will take the piss.

 

[clubchamp98]

Who decides they are injured? What is the punishment if an injured player is moved by a team mate?

The Phisio / medical team decide nobody else.
The ref can stop the game anytime he wants

Well like the Everton slapping incident if a teammate drags someone back on the pitch I’d send him off the same as an opponent dragging him off.

Just don’t do it.

These are super fit men at the top of their game they can get off the floor by themselves.
Offer a hand but don’t be dragging the shirt off them like Gabriel did to Wirtz.

 

[clubchamp98]

I think this is a bit of an over reaction. I totally agree that you shouldn't move a person who has a back or neck injury, but when the player is rolling about all over the place, holding a different part of their body then there is absolutely no risk (and probably no injury).

In first aid, you are taught to check and treat the silent, non moving casualties first, they are usually the ones that are most seriously injured. if you are screaming and moving, you are alive.

You don’t really get multiple casualties in a football match.

Just don’t move an injured player there really is no need.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Sometimes I don’t think you actually watch PL Football!

The current rules are play continues unless it is a head injury or the Ref decides it’s a serious injury.

How many times have we seen a player pretend to be injured and an opposition player tries to drag them to their feet?

As for your “reassure” a player like Dom was doing, then why did Bradley shuffle back on to the pitch after Dom spoke to him?

Martinelli was 100% out of order, but I believe he didn’t think Bradley was injured as he saw him move back on to the pitch and thought he was time wasting! Martinelli should of been sent off for 2 yellows imo.

Also after Martinelli shoved him, Bradley again lifted himself back on the pitch!

All teams have players that cheat and if we are going to let players roll about only let medical teams make decisions, players will take the piss.

Are people looking for something that’s not there

Already we have seen people suggesting that McAllister picked him and put him back on the pitch when he didn’t even leave the pitch and McAllister wasn’t even there and the only person to touch him was Martinelli

Bradley made a small movement , done before Dom got there , he didn’t shuffle back on the pitch after Dom said something because he was never off the pitch and the small movement was done before Dom got there

And Bradley didn’t lift himself back onto the pitch after Martinelli pushed him

The video is clear

There was only one person at fault and it seems there are mental gymnastics to try and justify his actions

Just leave the player alone it’s very simple

 

[clubchamp98]

Reckon the best people to decide if someone is injured will be the teams medical staff

All the players just leave them all unless someone is there to re assure the player like Dom was doing

It shouldn’t even be an issue but as we are aware some players are a bit daft and in this instance it was Martinelli.

Let’s hope it’s lessons learned

Martinelli has been in Bradley’s position though badly hurt and he’s learnt nothing from it.

They need to just tell clubs don’t touch an injured player unless he asks like cramp !

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Martinelli has been in Bradley’s position though badly hurt and he’s learnt nothing from it.

They need to just tell clubs don’t touch an injured player unless he asks like cramp !

Martinelli was also the player that was off the pitch in the managers area and Arteta told him to go back onto the pitch and go down there

 

[PaulMdj]

The Phisio / medical team decide nobody else.
The ref can stop the game anytime he wants

Well like the Everton slapping incident if a teammate drags someone back on the pitch I’d send him off the same as an opponent dragging him off.

Just don’t do it.

These are super fit men at the top of their game they can get off the floor by themselves.
Offer a hand but don’t be dragging the shirt off them like Gabriel did to Wirtz.

We know the Ref’s authority but that is not what they are currently instructed to do! Have you never seen a game continue and one side is playing on while the other wants the ball putting out of play because a team mate is down injured?

The ball goes out, the player is “treated” and his team get reorganised and get a drop ball or whatever to restart the game.

All teams have players who cheat or drag opposition off the floor and why did Gabriel feel the need to drag Wirtze by the arms?

 

[AmandaJR]

Footballers cheat - ALL THE TIME.

Footballers feign injury - ALL THE TIME.

They're as bad as each other and probably their first thought is "he's cheating" because it's so natural to themselves that they assume it must be.

Martinelli is horrid. Arteta is horrid. Arsenal are horrid. You could probably insert any player, manager, team in there depending on your persuasion.

Maybe it's time for this incident to be consigned to the history books. I'm sure there will be plenty more to debate after the match tonight

 

[PaulMdj]

Are people looking for something that’s not there

Already we have seen people suggesting that McAllister picked him and put him back on the pitch when he didn’t even leave the pitch and McAllister wasn’t even there and the only person to touch him was Martinelli

Bradley made a small movement , done before Dom got there , he didn’t shuffle back on the pitch after Dom said something because he was never off the pitch and the small movement was done before Dom got there

And Bradley didn’t lift himself back onto the pitch after Martinelli pushed him

The video is clear

There was only one person at fault and it seems there are mental gymnastics to try and justify his actions

Just leave the player alone it’s very simple

Watch again! Martinelli drops the ball on Bradley (Yellow Card imo) Dom bends down and touches/says something to Bradley, Bradley shuffles on to pitch, Martinelli then overreacts to that movement and shoves him off the pitch (2nd Yellow imo) and it kicks off.

Bradley then again moves back on to pitch.

Nobody is trying mental gymnastics, just calling it as we see it, it just seems you are only seeing it from one angle.

Roy Keane And Daniel Sturridge react to Gabriel Martinelli pushing Conor Bradley whilst he was down injured

Roy Keane and former Liverpool striker Daniel Sturridge react to Gabriel Martinelli trying to push Conor Bradley off the pitch in the latter stages of the match with both pundits in agreement that is was disrespectful thing to do.

www.skysports.com