clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Liking them to and expecting them to are totally different things!
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Always thought this.
If a back four push up to play Wilson offside he is impacting on them.
Your offside when the ball is kicked not when or if you receive it!
No defender can let a ball like that go just incase.
Another pandering to VAR not putting the flag up.
Like the handball rule they have changed it to a state it’s not fit for purpose.imo.
Tashyboy
Please don’t ask to see my tatts 👍
And this highlights what I have said about the offside rule. If that game was a carabao cup game. There’s a good chance the linesman puts the flag up as soon as Wilson gets the initial ball as that is what he is looking for. So now he has left it for VAR to make the decision. It just don’t seem right to have the same rule applied differently in different comps.
Swango1980
Well-known member
That is incorrect. In any game of football, the linesman flags if he thinks a player is guilty of an offside offence. The only difference is that when VAR is used, the linesman delays waving the flag until he thinks the move is over.
In the Premier League, the linesman doesn't need to worry about incorrectly waving the flag, or incorrectly not waving the flag. VAR will correct him either way.
At any rate, I'm not sure about your comment. And I am only visualising the incident based on what others said above, so maybe I'm wrong. However, you said the linesman would flag for offside as soon as Wilson gets the initial ball. But, he didn't get the initial ball. That was the whole point of why it wasn't given offside. He was deemed not to be active at that point, and he wasn't in an offside position at the moment the ball was sucessfully played to him. So, it is nothing to do with VAR, it is simply down to the offside rule and how one interprets when a player is active and inactive.
PaulMdj
Well-known member
It’s not that black and white and it’s not pandering to VAR, all Officials will look to play an advantage, ie, what if in this case the headed clearance had led to a Chelsea breakaway and the Ref blew his whistle and pulled them back, there’d be complaints of the Ref blowing too soon.
If Wilson had received the ball from the cross the flag would of gone up.
Delaying all decisions is not simply down to VAR, we all want the game to flow and the linesman in the initial cross was correct in not raising his flag.
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
It would be the same in the Carabao Cup because it’s the rules in regards a player active as opposed to it being about VAR so the linesman wouldn’t raise his flag
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
I disagree.
It’s why when they look at offside they go back to the strike of the ball!
If the ball ended up with Wilson he’s offside.
But because the defender intercepted it he’s not.
That’s just not right imo. As the ball went out of play so no counter attack.
The Lino should always flag but the ref dosnt have to blow the whistle if there’s a counter attack unfolding.
Your offside when the ball is played that’s when the flag should go up not when we see what happens next.!
That’s where it’s all gone wrong.
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
That’s not how the rules work though even without var
We may not agree with them but that’s what they are
irip
Head Pro
I agree but it’s the law that needs changing.
As it stands currently the officials got it right though.
I think if they try to confuse the rules as much as possible so none of us understand them then they can say VAR and officials are brilliant.
They are doing well so far with both offside and handball
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
I know that.
It’s why I said they have messed the rule up.!
Tashyboy
Please don’t ask to see my tatts 👍
To add to this, if the defender does not go for the ball, he is going to get slated by his manager, the players and supporters. He has to go for the ball especially if he is challenged. But all of a sudden a player who is in an offside position is not interfering with play but he scores.
Bottom line, the offside rule is now as clear as fog.
nickjdavis
Head Pro
That's the trouble though....the success or otherwise of the intended pass should not be relevant. The offside player interfered with play because he forced the defender to try to make a clearing header.
A few seasons back Newcastle were playing Villa...an attempted Villa through ball to a player who was offside was intercepted on the stretch by a Newcastle defender who ultimately toe poked the ball to a different Villa player who had ran from an onside position to collect the ball and score. The goal stood. The offside Villa player, whilst never receiving the ball, had a material impact on what happened next and the goal really should have been disallowed.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
This was changed imo because in the old days you could be offside tying your bootlaces by the opposite corner flag.To add to this, if the defender does not go for the ball, he is going to get slated by his manager, the players and supporters. He has to go for the ball especially if he is challenged. But all of a sudden a player who is in an offside position is not interfering with play but he scores.
Bottom line, the offside rule is now as clear as fog.
That was obviously a bit silly.
But nowadays you can have a world class striker in the penalty area and he’s “not interfering “ really
even when a defender has pushed out to play him offside.?Your offside when the balls played.
Simple as that even if you only get a corner off a defender that dosnt change the fact your offside.
It’s all gone wrong with phases of play etc.
Just put the flag up and let the ref know there’s an offside.
Swango1980
Well-known member
The problem with trying to be black and white with the offside rule is that there will ALWAYS be gray areas in between, where specific incidents expose the flaws in the way it is written.
As it stands, if a defender tries to cut out a ball, where it is clear and obvious they are doing so to stop it getting to a player that is clearly offside, it absolutely does feel wrong that offside is not given. Extreme examples are when the defender gets a nick on the ball, but it ends up going straight to guy that was offside anyway, and suddenly he is not offside because it came off the defender who intentionally tried to play the ball. I personally feel that sort of situation should DEFINITELY be flagged offside (yesterdays incident is less extreme than that, because the player was simply deemed inactive for first pas, and was onside for the pass played to him afterwards)
However, if the law was written so that the linesman must flag offside in the situation we had yesterday, then there are going to many many times fans will scream with anger that a goal scoring opportunity was ended, when player that was offside was not active when that pass was made, but may or may not have become active later. In fact, it would have been pressure from fans and football people on the authorites, that resulted in why the rule is written as it is now. And as much as the odd Chelsea fan will grumble when it goes against them, they would scream with rage if they had a goal disallowed for the same reason. I mean, that is inevitable, given how the Chelsea players reacted to the obvious red card.
PaulMdj
Well-known member
Nope, only if active or interfering with play.
Using last night as an example, fulham player crosses the ball to Wilson, but instead of it reaching Wilson another Fulham player intercepts it and heads it in the goal, you’re saying it should be disallowed because Wilson was in an Offside position.
Plus, your point of the Ref ignoring the flag, what if Ref A does and Ref B doesn’t, were back to inconsistencey and what’s right or wrong.
Swango1980
Well-known member
To counter that statement a bit:This was changed imo because in the old days you could be offside tying your bootlaces by the opposite corner flag.
That was obviously a bit silly.
But nowadays you can have a world class striker in the penalty area and he’s “not interfering “ really
Your offside when the balls played.
Simple as that even if you only get a corner off a defender that dosnt change the fact your offside.
It’s all gone wrong with phases of play etc.
Just put the flag up and let the ref know there’s an offside.
The defenders may well have pushed out to play the central striker offside. However, if that means they have ignored another opponent who is actually onside, who then gets the ball and passes to the central striker to score (now onside), you could argue that the defenders have failed to account for the player that was onside
PaulMdj
Well-known member
The offside can’t be that confusing if some of us understand it, we may not like it, but that doesn’t mean it’s not clear.To add to this, if the defender does not go for the ball, he is going to get slated by his manager, the players and supporters. He has to go for the ball especially if he is challenged. But all of a sudden a player who is in an offside position is not interfering with play but he scores.
Bottom line, the offside rule is now as clear as fog.
Defender’s make decisions all the time trying to catch the opposition offside.
The Offside last night was reset as a new phase, Wilson did not score from an offside position.
PaulMdj
Well-known member
What would be the difference between him tying his laces by the corner flag and a world class striker tying his laces stood in corner of the penalty area today?This was changed imo because in the old days you could be offside tying your bootlaces by the opposite corner flag.
That was obviously a bit silly.
But nowadays you can have a world class striker in the penalty area and he’s “not interfering “ really
Your offside when the balls played.
Simple as that even if you only get a corner off a defender that dosnt change the fact your offside.
It’s all gone wrong with phases of play etc.
Just put the flag up and let the ref know there’s an offside.
You’re saying nothing.
Pin-seeker
Well-known member
Agreed.This was changed imo because in the old days you could be offside tying your bootlaces by the opposite corner flag.
That was obviously a bit silly.
But nowadays you can have a world class striker in the penalty area and he’s “not interfering “ really
Your offside when the balls played.
Simple as that even if you only get a corner off a defender that dosnt change the fact your offside.
It’s all gone wrong with phases of play etc.
Just put the flag up and let the ref know there’s an offside.
Why not make the rules as simple as possible?
Surely that would make the officials job easier
Tashyboy
Please don’t ask to see my tatts 👍
And save 50 posts on the footie forum as people see the rules differentlyAgreed.
Why not make the rules as simple as possible?
Surely that would make the officials job easier
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