The Footie Thread

[Orikoru]

I'm not aware of the extensive research that proves a top class goalkeeper can cover 0.4 metres in a tenth of a second, or how those precise numbers tie in with the precise numbers of the incident yesterday.

I'm simply saying that it is my belief, that was a goal if Robertson was there or not. And it is a good example of an incident that different officials will have different conclusions, or even the same official will have inconsistent conclusions if similar incidents happen in the games they are in charge of.

An interesting factor is what goes on before the player is caught offside, as it also applied to the other incident (Arsenal game I believe) which they compared this to on MOTD. The player backed into the keeper (but not a foul) before the shot came in, clearly impacting the keeper's movement. Once the shot came in, the point in which the player was in an offside position, they had moved to the side so no longer blocked the keepers view. In Arsenal game, the goal stood. Yesterday, the goal did not stand.

I think it is a rule that is destined to always be inconsistent from one game to the next. I wouldn't be surprised if they change it in future, such as "if an offside player is inside the 6 yard box, it is automatically given offside, regardless of whether they had any impact on the play"

In that case he should have got the hell out of the way then. He's cost his team a goal by hanging around offside. As LT said earlier, he's not there for no reason. He's there because he thinks he can impact play, either by knocking the ball in or putting the goalie off. The fact he's offside is because the City defenders stepped up intelligently to catch him out.

If Robertson that imposing a player that his “mere presence” affects a top class GK

The GK knows that if Robbo goes for the ball then it’s offside

It was just a good header out of his reach

It’s very much subjective call because of the state of The offside rules

You're being very reductive. The presence of any opposing player in his six yard box is always going to affect the goalie's decision-making and his positioning. He can't just mentally block out a player because he thinks he'll be given offside, the whole thing happens in about 1 second of time. And again, that player had his hand on the goalie's chest half a second before the ball is headed.

Agree the rule could be clearer. Don't quite agree with @Swango1980 's wording as I think it'd be fine if the player was on the complete opposite side of the 6-yard box - but I'd maybe add a wording about the player being literally on the path of the ball, as he was.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

In that case he should have got the hell out of the way then. He's cost his team a goal by hanging around offside. As LT said earlier, he's not there for no reason. He's there because he thinks he can impact play, either by knocking the ball in or putting the goalie off. The fact he's offside is because the City defenders stepped up intelligently to catch him out.


You're being very reductive. The presence of any opposing player in his six yard box is always going to affect the goalie's decision-making and his positioning. He can't just mentally block out a player because he thinks he'll be given offside, the whole thing happens in about 1 second of time. And again, that player had his hand on the goalie's chest half a second before the ball is headed.

Agree the rule could be clearer. Don't quite agree with @Swango1980 's wording as I think it'd be fine if the player was on the complete opposite side of the 6-yard box - but I'd maybe add a wording about the player being literally on the path of the ball, as he was.

The player had his hands on when the corner was being taken in the same way every player grabs or has hands on

Robertson made no affect on Donnarumma , take Robertson away and he still isn’t saving it because it was just a good header

GK’s are aware of the rules and shouldn’t be affected by someone in an offside position- he wasn’t even looking at Robertson , he was looking at VVD and the line of the ball , the player that may well have got in his eye line is Doku

It’s a very subjective call - the linesman shouldn’t have flagged ( because that’s a directive that those decisions are left to VAR ) and then VAR should have also asked the Ref to look at it as well

That was a good option for VAR to be involved

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

The player had his hands on when the corner was being taken in the same way every player grabs or has hands on

Robertson made no affect on Donnarumma , take Robertson away and he still isn’t saving it because it was just a good header

GK’s are aware of the rules and shouldn’t be affected by someone in an offside position- he wasn’t even looking at Robertson , he was looking at VVD and the line of the ball , the player that may well have got in his eye line is Doku

It’s a very subjective call - the linesman shouldn’t have flagged ( because that’s a directive that those decisions are left to VAR ) and then VAR should have also asked the Ref to look at it as well

That was a good option for VAR to be involved

That really isn't the point though, take Robertson away and of course there is no argument for him interfering in play! Fact is he is there, he did have hands on the keeper in the build up and he does duck under the ball for it to pass him.

All of that adds up to he is interfering, its consistent with the decision against Everton. Its inconsistent with other previous decisions, maybe it's time to move on from this debate as no Liverpool fan is going to agree with it, but I guarantee if it was against them they'd be calling for it to be offside.

 

[irip]

The player had his hands on when the corner was being taken in the same way every player grabs or has hands on

Robertson made no affect on Donnarumma , take Robertson away and he still isn’t saving it because it was just a good header

GK’s are aware of the rules and shouldn’t be affected by someone in an offside position- he wasn’t even looking at Robertson , he was looking at VVD and the line of the ball , the player that may well have got in his eye line is Doku

It’s a very subjective call - the linesman shouldn’t have flagged ( because that’s a directive that those decisions are left to VAR ) and then VAR should have also asked the Ref to look at it as well

That was a good option for VAR to be involved

It’s not a directive for the linesman not to flag.
The directive is to not flag until the attack has come to a conclusion (and then only if he feels it is offside).Only then is the linesman asked to give his opinion (pretty much a waste of time as VAR will check it anyway).

Take out the 2 teams and both colours.
Show a video in black & white to football supporters and ask them if this is offside?

I reckon 9/10 say it is offside.

 

[Neilds]

The player had his hands on when the corner was being taken in the same way every player grabs or has hands on

Robertson made no affect on Donnarumma , take Robertson away and he still isn’t saving it because it was just a good header

GK’s are aware of the rules and shouldn’t be affected by someone in an offside position- he wasn’t even looking at Robertson , he was looking at VVD and the line of the ball , the player that may well have got in his eye line is Doku

It’s a very subjective call - the linesman shouldn’t have flagged ( because that’s a directive that those decisions are left to VAR ) and then VAR should have also asked the Ref to look at it as well

That was a good option for VAR to be involved

But still you argue against the decision!

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Robertson made no affect on Donnarumma , take Robertson away and he still isn’t saving it because it was just a good header

Vicario wasn't saving the O'Brien header the other week but that doesn't come into it. It is what it is, as pointed out to me repeatedly that day

 

[Arthur Wedge]

It’s not a directive for the linesman not to flag.
The directive is to not flag until the attack has come to a conclusion (and then only if he feels it is offside).Only then is the linesman asked to give his opinion (pretty much a waste of time as VAR will check it anyway).

This is from Dale Johnson who is pretty decent


“It is a borderline call, but still supportable as an on-field decision.

However, officials are advised it's usually best to leave complicated subjective offside decisions to the VAR, and if that had happened Liverpool would likely have had an equaliser.”

Take out the 2 teams and both colours.
Show a video in black & white to football supporters and ask them if this is offside?

I reckon 9/10 say it is offside.

Well looking at the responses from pundits etc it seems that most are saying it shouldn’t have been disallowed

 

[Neilds]

Well looking at the responses from pundits etc it seems that most are saying it shouldn’t have been disallowed

And we all know that pundits are never wrong

 

[Arthur Wedge]

But still you argue against the decision!

It’s called a discussion , a polite mature one with both sides putting their points across

 

[Neilds]

It’s called a discussion , a polite mature one with both sides putting their points across

Not sure it can be called mature when it is the same point of view going back and forth!

As happens quite often on here

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Vicario wasn't saving the O'Brien header the other week but that doesn't come into it. It is what it is, as pointed out to me repeatedly that day

Everton vs Tottenham Hotspur: Jake O'Brien's goal overturned after VAR check

Jake OBriens goal is overturned following a VAR check, which ruled Iliman Ndiaye is adjusted to have been interfering with Spurs stopper Guglielmo Vicario and was in an offside position.

www.skysports.com

This one ?

Two players either side of the GK

 

[irip]

Well looking at the responses from pundits etc it seems that most are saying it shouldn’t have been disallowed

That is their opinion, I disagree 100%. Just because they are a pundit doesn’t make them right.
For my money it’s offside every day of the week.
I understand previous similar incidents have seen the goal given but that doesn’t make it right.
If it went against Liverpool and a goal was given against them I would not agree and I bet you wouldn’t either.

I do agree it’s an interesting conversation and everyone will have their own opinions and no one is right or wrong.

One thing I will say is that you cannot blame the officials.
We have seen it multiple times from different angles in slow mo and at full speed, and still can’t agree.
what chance have they got?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

That is their opinion, I disagree 100%. Just because they are a pundit doesn’t make them right.
For my money it’s offside every day of the week.
I understand previous similar incidents have seen the goal given but that doesn’t make it right.
If it went against Liverpool and a goal was given against them I would not agree and I bet you wouldn’t either.

I do agree it’s an interesting conversation and everyone will have their own opinions and no one is right or wrong.

One thing I will say is that you cannot blame the officials.
We have seen it multiple times from different angles in slow mo and at full speed, and still can’t agree.
what chance have they got?

When it comes to the on field officials it is very quick and split second stuff and it’s hard

Hence why VAR was brought into help

But that’s the issue with VAR - not being used properly etc

If the linesman had not flagged it would have been looked at by VAR anyway because it’s a goal - then they have time to check

 

[Orikoru]

If VAR looked at it, they would have seen Robertson place his hand on the goalie while offside, and then duck as the ball flies over him into the net, and they'd have given it offside. Not really seeing the weight behind this argument.

 

[irip]

When it comes to the on field officials it is very quick and split second stuff and it’s hard

Hence why VAR was brought into help

But that’s the issue with VAR - not being used properly etc

If the linesman had not flagged it would have been looked at by VAR anyway because it’s a goal - then they have time to check

I agree the officials have a nightmare job which has got harder with the introduction of sky etc and more cameras and journalists questioning them.
If you watch a re- run of the big match which they show occasionally the commentators just agree with the officials (as the players do) and everyone just carries on.

For me VAR needs to be binned off, I don’t think it makes that much difference to the decisions made and has not changed the game for the better.
For me the trade off with not being able to celebrate a goal (particularly for the crowd who are there) instantly is not worth it.

We used to argue about refereeing decisions, what are we doing now?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I agree the officials have a nightmare job which has got harder with the introduction of sky etc and more cameras and journalists questioning them.
If you watch a re- run of the big match which they show occasionally the commentators just agree with the officials (as the players do) and everyone just carries on.

For me VAR needs to be binned off, I don’t think it makes that much difference to the decisions made and has not changed the game for the better.
For me the trade off with not being able to celebrate a goal (particularly for the crowd who are there) instantly is not worth it.

We used to argue about refereeing decisions, what are we doing now?

The “ex ref” they trot out on comms is awful

As for pundits and commentators , hard to watch any Liverpool game with a Man Utd player on commentary and suspect it’s the same with Man Utd fans with a Liverpool player on comms - it shouldn’t happen

As for binning off VAR

Reckon 99% would want it gone - just leave the semi automated for offsides and only a red card is checked

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

I agree the officials have a nightmare job which has got harder with the introduction of sky etc and more cameras and journalists questioning them.
If you watch a re- run of the big match which they show occasionally the commentators just agree with the officials (as the players do) and everyone just carries on.

For me VAR needs to be binned off, I don’t think it makes that much difference to the decisions made and has not changed the game for the better.
For me the trade off with not being able to celebrate a goal (particularly for the crowd who are there) instantly is not worth it.

We used to argue about refereeing decisions, what are we doing now?

For me this is one of the beauties of supporting a non prem side. We get the game in real time and no over officiating, it's a lot easier to accept the decisions as they happen as Ref's are humanised. They still get stick but it's a lot less without the added pressures of VAR.

 

[irip]

The “ex ref” they trot out on comms is awful

As for pundits and commentators , hard to watch any Liverpool game with a Man Utd player on commentary and suspect it’s the same with Man Utd fans with a Liverpool player on comms - it shouldn’t happen

As for binning off VAR

Reckon 99% would want it gone - just leave the semi automated for offsides and only a red card is checked

I would be happy with that.
Although I think get rid of Stockly Park.
If the ref sees something he thinks could be a red then he chooses to go to the screen.
He is on the pitch he knows how the game is going.
Let him make the decision.
And no slow mo replays cause they always look worse. Football is not played in slow motion

 

[Slime]

My perspective, for what it's worth.
If Robertson hadn't ducked, the ball would likely have hit him, or so he possibly thought.
He didn't want that to happen, maybe because he knew he was in an offside position, so he ducked.
He was, therefore and without any doubt, interfering with play.
Offside, no doubt in my mind.

 

[RichA]

I'm not aware of the extensive research that proves a top class goalkeeper can cover 0.4 metres in a tenth of a second, or how those precise numbers tie in with the precise numbers of the incident yesterday.

It's there if you look for it.
Time for keeper to get from stationary at the centre of goal to the post (3.7 metres) = 0.7 seconds diving + 0.2 seconds reaction time = 0.9 seconds.
3.7 metres in 0.9 seconds = 4.1 m/s.
Keeper seemed to wait to dive until he had ruled out Robertson deflecting it to the other side.

What do you think of the City one against Wolves last year.?
They showed it on MOTD last night.
Even Dermot was struggling on ref watch today.
Same ref!

He was only struggling to explain it to the muppet who wasn't listening to his explanation. They've even titled the YT video, "You're not listening!"