4LEX
Well-known member
Arsenal deserved that, by far the best team this season performance wise and had the toughest fixtures.
Massive result for them.
Massive result for them.
Pin-seeker
Well-known member
You might want to run for cover
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
When is the trophy presentation?
Listening this morning it seems Arsenal won the league yesterday
Listening this morning it seems Arsenal won the league yesterday
Swingalot
Challenge Tour Pro
Surely Big Ange could be in the running soon..............
road2ruin
Q-School Graduate
Baring the obvious I think almost any manager would jump at the chance even with the mess that we are in. The opportunity to be the one manager to succeed where the previous half dozen couldn't will be driven by ego etc.
It's a no lose. Get paid millions. Get paid more millions when sacked. No one thinks worse of you because Utd are in a mess all across the board.
I don't think Utd will get a manager from a really top club in a top league but elsewhere, I agree with you.
Swango1980
Well-known member
If people keep blaming the manager for United's poor displays, and that was truly deemed to be the main problem, then any quality manager could be interested in the job (outside personal preferences not to manage in England, club allegiances, etc).
Because any quality manager will believe they have the ability to solve the problem. After all, if football fans (for and against Man Utd) can confidentally point out where the current manager is going wrong, then a highly qualified, great manager will certainly feel like they can solve the problem
Because any quality manager will believe they have the ability to solve the problem. After all, if football fans (for and against Man Utd) can confidentally point out where the current manager is going wrong, then a highly qualified, great manager will certainly feel like they can solve the problem
Swango1980
Well-known member
Nobody viewed ETH or Ole in a more negative light after they were sacked by Man Utd? People don't view Amorim in a more negatove light now than when he left Sporting?
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
It’s more about which top manager would be looking to leave their current club where they are prob doing very well to go to United
Is it more of a case of it being those that are out of work
I think Amorim is bombing and his reputation is being damaged, simply by his refusal to adapt.
The other two, I don't think people think any differently of them. They see the players, recruitment, bigger issues as just as much part of the problem.
To be fair, no one outside of Utd and Norway thought too much of Ole before he came. He needed to prove himself somewhere between Utd and Norway for him to have a reputation to lose.
Bunkermagnet
Journeyman Pro
Mike Bassett is free......
Swango1980
Well-known member
With Amorim, I agree.
With ETH, I certainly liked him as a manager, and still have a lot of respect for him. However, it certainly seemed clear that the people on this forum (at least the non-Man Utd fans) were very vocal in expressing how bad they thought he was, and almost blamed every bad thing at Utd on him. The same seemed very true within the mainstream media.
With Ole, agreed again, he didn't really have a managerial reputation to speak of when he arrived at Man Utd, but I suppose if his reputation was deemed neutral when he joined, it had sunk into the negative when he was sacked.
Personally, given there are much bigger issues at Utd than just managing the team, I think that is what will make top managers think twice about coming the the club if asked. Whereas if any felt that most of the issues were at the managers door, then they'd likely think they could make big improvements quickly.
I think ETH was a really disappointing one. I'll happily admit I hammered him on here. At no stage in his time at Utd did he stamp a style of play on his team. What was the ETH approach? You could see it at Ajax but at Utd, nothing. You don't have to be rigid, eg Amorim, but you have to have something to start with. For example, if you had said back then to the Utd youth teams, academy teams , U23 etc, play the ETH way, do you think they would all have given the same answer as to what that was?
If you look back to your glory days, most managers in the PL, they all have a template of sorts. It might adapt to different teams but the basic gist is there. ETH never brought that to Utd so it was hard to see what he was trying to do.
road2ruin
Q-School Graduate
The problem at United is that it's just the cycle repeating. Whilst Amorim is proving to be his own worst enemy with his refusal to change or adapt however the performance of the players against Brentford was just a disgrace especially when you compare it to that of the Chelsea game. No one seems particularly bothered, it's like they've downed tools already and now just going through the motions until the new manger comes in. My prediction is that they'll be the bounce (which Amorim never got) but in 5/6 months time we'll be facing exactly the same issues. The problems at United run so deep now extending past the manager and players that I cannot really see when things begin to turn around. The Glazers leaving would be the first step in the right direction.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Yes, when ETH was manager at Utd, there was plenty of garbage football. But, it was a style of play he clearly didn't want to play, it was just that is what the players were giving him. Either because of absent players through injury (his last full season), or just players with bad attitudes or lack of ability. But, he was adaptable. For example, playing a completely different way against City in the Cup Final Utd won, and winning in a way that was very much deserved, rather than a smash and grab. He got us to 3 domestic cup finals out of 4, finished 3rd in his 1st season. And although it felt like a shocking decline to finish 8th the next season, that seemed to continue into the season he was quickly sacked, I bet many Utd fans can only dream of a top 10 finish now. I felt he had the right balance of discipline and attacking desire to build a very good side, if given the time. I'm a believer that the road to ultimate improvement will require plenty of peaks and troughs along the way, that could occur over 4-6 years. Sadly, no manager these days are likely to withstand a period in a trough, as owners and fans will demand immediate success and look for the next hipster manager, or steady experienced hands to take over.
Then rinse and repeat, unless you are lucky enough for the stars to align, and get both a good manager and have a squad balance that is ready to perform at a high level for a prolonged period. And then the early luck goes your way for fans and owners to get excited.
When Ferguson was at Utd, I believe what helped him was that he was allowed a few years to get really strong, trusted characters into the squad. Once he had guys he knew would give you 100% all the time, he was able to sprinkle some magic in there. Making sure they had a really strong youth set up, whilst also bringing in the likes of Cantona. Once he had the foundation, he only needed to bring in a single magical type player every season or 2, and know that they would fall into that winning mentality due to the characters around them. With Utd now, it would take years for any manager to even set that foundation. For too long we were looking to just buy in top quality, without any foundation for those players to feed off. I'm not convinced with the mentality of youth players either, but that may just be today's society. In the 90's, they'd have feared and respected Fergie. Today, they are Gods in their own head before they even turn pro, and the world must bow to them, and they should not be criticised.
I also become more and more convinced that despite Bruno being our best player, the paradox is that I think he makes the team worse. Certainly in a deep midfield role, that he is not good at in any way. I think he tries too hard to get involved in everything, is impossible to know where he will be on the pitch, and tries too many Hollywood balls. For every great ball he may play, there is probably 4-5 balls he carelessly concedes possession, and 1-2 of those can often lead to quick counters that his team mates are ill prepared for. Given Utd bought Cunha and Mbeumo, and also have Mount, Zirkzee and Amad, it makes more and more sense that if they had the chance to sell Bruno for even £50 million, let along £100 million, they probably should have done it. Make an even fresher start.
Not read all of the above, but the consensus amongst my United supporting friends and family, and that comprises a lot of people, is that they want Amorim gone, and they want him gone quick. Several are hoping we get turned over by Sunderland at the weekend if it hastens his departure. And I genuinely think that will happen, given I can no longer see where the next result is coming from.
Just watching MNF and, whilst it is clear that Jamie Carragher is revelling in United’s woes, he did actually make a very valid point. The one positive is that, despite spending a small fortune this summer, United have not gone all in on Amorim’s system. They haven’t invested heavily in wing backs and central defenders to fit a 3-4-3 or 3-4-2-1. So, the players we now have could adapt to what would be a far better fit for them - surely that must be a 4-3-3 or 4-3-2-1.
For me, a central defensive pair of De Ligt and Yoro/Martinez, with two half decent full backs either side, Ugarte sitting in front of them, with his accepted lack of mobility perhaps being less of an issue, with Bruno and Mainoo playing as 8’s, and the front three configured however you want to do that. It simply has to be better than a midfield pair who get overrun every game. The issue is becoming clearer every week - we have Bruno and Ugarte/Casemiro, who are nowhere near mobile enough, with wingbacks playing so high up the pitch that we are just ridiculously easy to play through.
If we can see that, it’s beyond belief that Amorim keeps allowing it to happen. The punditry after every game is like Groundhog Day.
It can’t continue.
Just watching MNF and, whilst it is clear that Jamie Carragher is revelling in United’s woes, he did actually make a very valid point. The one positive is that, despite spending a small fortune this summer, United have not gone all in on Amorim’s system. They haven’t invested heavily in wing backs and central defenders to fit a 3-4-3 or 3-4-2-1. So, the players we now have could adapt to what would be a far better fit for them - surely that must be a 4-3-3 or 4-3-2-1.
For me, a central defensive pair of De Ligt and Yoro/Martinez, with two half decent full backs either side, Ugarte sitting in front of them, with his accepted lack of mobility perhaps being less of an issue, with Bruno and Mainoo playing as 8’s, and the front three configured however you want to do that. It simply has to be better than a midfield pair who get overrun every game. The issue is becoming clearer every week - we have Bruno and Ugarte/Casemiro, who are nowhere near mobile enough, with wingbacks playing so high up the pitch that we are just ridiculously easy to play through.
If we can see that, it’s beyond belief that Amorim keeps allowing it to happen. The punditry after every game is like Groundhog Day.
It can’t continue.
Pin-seeker
Well-known member
On paper it’s not actually a bad squad,not saying they will challenge for the title.
Not sure if it’s arrogance or he’s just
as to why he won’t change his system.
Swingalot
Challenge Tour Pro
The key to the formation he plays is decent and energetic wing backs. The 2 united have are not PL standard imoOn paper it’s not actually a bad squad,not saying they will challenge for the title.
Not sure if it’s arrogance or he’s just
Swango1980
Well-known member
Can't argue too much with that.
I've tried to be as patient as I can. His reputation was high before he joined, so although knowing nothing about him, it seemed like a decent appointment to most. I was prepared to allow him to use his time last season as a long pre season, understand what he needs, and what he doesn't.
He now has had his summer. Excluding Grimsby, there were some positive signs during a tough start to the season.
But, the performance of Brentford sent the biggest concern to me. It was the same rubbish. He does the exact same thing game to game. He plays Bruno out of position, and Bruno is also untouchable. Others like Mainoo are getting little game time. And, unlike ETH, I really haven't seen anything positive yet, at his time at Utd.
So, to give him more time, for me, is simply me living on hope that Utd will start playing much better football by continuing approaching each game in the same way. It isn't me demanding he is sacked, as I'll still support him and the team as much as usual v Sunderland. But my optimism is hugely diminished
Absolutely bang on. Wing backs who can tuck in and help that midfield pair. United totally lack that, and until they either spend heavily on two wing backs, or Amorim changes his approach, nothing changes.
You can’t press the likes of Amad to play as a right wing back, and most certainly not Mount on the other side, as has happened. It’s yet more evidence of trying to shoehorn players into positions they are unfamiliar with, rather than adapting the system to suit the players you have.
