The Footie Thread

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It's funny how fans of other clubs sing the praises of Gareth Southgate when they talk is about him going to Man Utd.

Not so enthusiastic when we are talking about Southgate managing England, let alone ever going near their own club.

But, fans of other clubs obviously know what's best. I'm sure Southgate would turn Onana into a top goalkeeper, get Hojlund scoring 20+ goals per season in PL, make Casemiro cover every blade of grass, cure Shaw and Mount of all injuries, and turn Sancho and Garnacho into outstanding young men with great professional attitudes

On the other hand, he may just increase the odds of Man Utd getting relegated. At international level he can just pick players he knows he can work with. At club level, he is stuck with a large squad of players, many that won't play. He wouldn't be able to distance himself from issues that arose with the likes of Ben White as easily.
 
Swango1980 said:
It's funny how fans of other clubs sing the praises of Gareth Southgate when they talk is about him going to Man Utd.

Not so enthusiastic when we are talking about Southgate managing England, let alone ever going near their own club.

But, fans of other clubs obviously know what's best. I'm sure Southgate would turn Onana into a top goalkeeper, get Hojlund scoring 20+ goals per season in PL, make Casemiro cover every blade of grass, cure Shaw and Mount of all injuries, and turn Sancho and Garnacho into outstanding young men with great professional attitudes

On the other hand, he may just increase the odds of Man Utd getting relegated. At international level he can just pick players he knows he can work with. At club level, he is stuck with a large squad of players, many that won't play. He wouldn't be able to distance himself from issues that arose with the likes of Ben White as easily.
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It’s called having an opinion isn’t that what being on this forums about after all discussing different opinions.

I’d take him at my club but he’d have to drop a couple of divisions to do that! Hjolund might score with Southgate as he plays wingers whose sole job is to create for the striker unlike Amorim and his 2 x No10s, how’s that working out since last November! I didn’t have an issue with him as England manager should/could we have won more of course but he didn’t do a bad job at all.

Love to know who fans would want because so far all the managers you’ve been through including big names haven’t worked out have they.
 
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Swango1980 said:
It's funny how fans of other clubs sing the praises of Gareth Southgate when they talk is about him going to Man Utd.

Not so enthusiastic when we are talking about Southgate managing England, let alone ever going near their own club.

But, fans of other clubs obviously know what's best. I'm sure Southgate would turn Onana into a top goalkeeper, get Hojlund scoring 20+ goals per season in PL, make Casemiro cover every blade of grass, cure Shaw and Mount of all injuries, and turn Sancho and Garnacho into outstanding young men with great professional attitudes

On the other hand, he may just increase the odds of Man Utd getting relegated. At international level he can just pick players he knows he can work with. At club level, he is stuck with a large squad of players, many that won't play. He wouldn't be able to distance himself from issues that arose with the likes of Ben White as easily.
Click to expand...

Some of us have had him as manager at club level. Maybe he’s learned lots in the intervening years but I certainly wouldn’t have him back.
 
irip said:
If United fans had a choice (realistically) of manager who would they like to get?
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This is the issue though.

Utd have been awful. We keep getting new managers. Early on, there is positivity and its all "give the manager a chance, stick with it, Rome wasn't built in a day".

Then within a matter of months, the media start blaming the manager again. And not long after that talk of sacking him becomes strong again, and even Urd fans start looking to blame the manager.

There are managers I like, and there are hundreds I don't know of that I'm sure are very good. But, I still stand by what I said, that ETH is a good manager. And I'm still happy to stick by Amorim, we are only 3 games into this season. It is unlikely the problems at Utd can be solved in one transfer window. And there are bound to be messy moments along a journey to sustained improvement. Sacking the manager as soon as we hit a tough spell is counter productive. Perhaps I'd only even contemplate it if we were in a genuine threat to be relegated.

I certainly wouldn't take Southgate. He was poor as a club manager from memory. He was widely hated as England manager, despite England progressing to latter stages of tournaments. And it doesn't appear clubs have been queuing up to beg him to manage their club since he left as England manager. I'd rather have Roy Keane than Southgate, and don't think he has managed since 2011
 
Lucifer MorningStar said:
It’s called having an opinion isn’t that what being on this forums about after all discussing different opinions.

I’d take him at my club but he’d have to drop a couple of divisions to do that! Hjolund might score with Southgate as he plays wingers whose sole job is to create for the striker unlike Amorim and his 2 x No10s, how’s that working out since last November! I didn’t have an issue with him as England manager should/could we have won more of course but he didn’t do a bad job at all.

Love to know who fans would want because so far all the managers you’ve been through including big names haven’t worked out have they.
Click to expand...
I was only giving mine.

I can expand a little. I didnt mean ALL fans would not take him. For example, fans of Gainsborough Trinity might be happy if they got him, possibly.

But less likely that fans of clubs that compete at the level they expect Man Utd to compete at would want him. I'd be surprised if any Premier League club would really want him. Maybe a promoted clubs? Even then I'd be surprised. I've certainly not heard a Southgate In storyline at other clubs when they need a new manager. Only at Utd, but not from Utd fans.
 
I've just had a funny image in my head.

Sean Maguire (Good Will Hunting) putting his hand on the back of Amorim's head and saying:

Sean: "It's not your fault"
Amorim: "I know"
Sean: "No, it's not your fault"
Amorim : "Yeah, I know"
Sean: "No, no you don't. Look at me son, it's not your fault"
Amorim: "Don't mess with me, not you Sean"
Sean: "It's not your fault"
Amorim (as he goes in for a hug and in tears): "Ohh God, I'm sorry"

I'd hope such a meeting would fill Amorim with a new sense of belief to bring success to Man Utd. Although he'd probably just end up fleeing, to go see about a girl :(
 
Swango1980 said:
On the other hand, he may just increase the odds of Man Utd getting relegated. At international level he can just pick players he knows he can work with. At club level, he is stuck with a large squad of players, many that won't play. He wouldn't be able to distance himself from issues that arose with the likes of Ben White as easily.
Click to expand...
Maybe he would do what utd fans eulogise Ferguson used to do and they keep demanding later managers would do, get rid of them.

You have flipped how people usually look at these things. International managers are the ones hamstrung by players they can pick. Club managers can buy and sell.
 
Swango1980 said:
This is the issue though.

Utd have been awful. We keep getting new managers. Early on, there is positivity and its all "give the manager a chance, stick with it, Rome wasn't built in a day".

Then within a matter of months, the media start blaming the manager again. And not long after that talk of sacking him becomes strong again, and even Urd fans start looking to blame the manager.

There are managers I like, and there are hundreds I don't know of that I'm sure are very good. But, I still stand by what I said, that ETH is a good manager. And I'm still happy to stick by Amorim, we are only 3 games into this season. It is unlikely the problems at Utd can be solved in one transfer window. And there are bound to be messy moments along a journey to sustained improvement. Sacking the manager as soon as we hit a tough spell is counter productive. Perhaps I'd only even contemplate it if we were in a genuine threat to be relegated.

I certainly wouldn't take Southgate. He was poor as a club manager from memory. He was widely hated as England manager, despite England progressing to latter stages of tournaments. And it doesn't appear clubs have been queuing up to beg him to manage their club since he left as England manager. I'd rather have Roy Keane than Southgate, and don't think he has managed since 2011
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Surely good managers are adaptable - both with the players they have and also the teams they are playing against. Trying to play one system with players who can't/won't play in that system is madness and a good manager would have a number of different plans which he could implement until he gets the players that can play in his favoured systems. If people on this forum can tell what is wrong, surely a half decent manager can see the same and adjust his system to accommodate the players he does has.
As I have said before, there are better managers in the lower divisions because they have to work with the players they have and are not able to splash millions every 6 months to get the exact players they need to carry them.
 
Lord Tyrion said:
Maybe he would do what utd fans eulogise Ferguson used to do and they keep demanding later managers would do, get rid of them.

You have flipped how people usually look at these things. International managers are the ones hamstrung by players they can pick. Club managers can buy and sell.
Click to expand...
I think you mention the name that IS the Utd problem. Ferguson.
He was excellent at his prime (and I hated him for it) but he has become a ghost that haunts every manager since. Only once Feguson is no longer aorund will Utd finally move forward.
 
Lord Tyrion said:
Maybe he would do what utd fans eulogise Ferguson used to do and they keep demanding later managers would do, get rid of them.

You have flipped how people usually look at these things. International managers are the ones hamstrung by players they can pick. Club managers can buy and sell.
Click to expand...
Did you not say yesterday how difficult it is to get rid of players at Utd? I'm sure if Amorim or ETH were playing Fantasy Football, there would be many players that would get removed from squad

But, they can't. Not in the short term.

International players can't pick any player in the world. But, luckily for Southgate, he had some of the best, in form international players in the world. Much better than the vast majority of players at teams who would play against. And if there are problem players, they don't get picked. Nowhere near him or his squad

If Southgate came to Utd, he'd be stuck with the squad he has, and only be able to slowly change it every 6 months. He'd have to put up with the bad apples, possibly for several years given their contract
 
Neilds said:
Surely good managers are adaptable - both with the players they have and also the teams they are playing against. Trying to play one system with players who can't/won't play in that system is madness and a good manager would have a number of different plans which he could implement until he gets the players that can play in his favoured systems. If people on this forum can tell what is wrong, surely a half decent manager can see the same and adjust his system to accommodate the players he does has.
As I have said before, there are better managers in the lower divisions because they have to work with the players they have and are not able to splash millions every 6 months to get the exact players they need to carry them.
Click to expand...
And yet managers that have been classed as good managers have failed at Utd.

I suspect the media are more obsessed with the system than Amorim to be honest. But, yes, I've no doubt Amorim has plenty to learn. Like players, I hope he is always looking to improve.

We can't blame the system for what happened at Grimsby. Utd should be easily winning that. The issues seem to run much deeper, and have existed long before Amorim came in.

Grimsby, a shocker, but a shocker that is not unique through history at Utd or other clubs. Arsenal are probably best defence in league, so excusable. Fulham not good, first away match of season, so we move on.

But I'd prefer to get much deeper into season to truly see if any progress had been made. If by Xmas, he is still picking completely different sides each week and performances are still poor, yes I'll become more concerned. I think having a more settled first team would start getting him more consistent (better) performances.

Apparently Mainoo wants to go out on loan. If Amorim doesn't see him in his first 11 now, I would support Mainoo going out on loan. Give him good experience, and still have the player after the loan spell.

Regards to better managers in lower divisions. Yes, they can't spend money and work with what they have. But that methodology wouldn't necessarily work well at a club like Man Utd, as they'd more easily get torn apart by elite opponents. You could say Amorim and ETH were fantastic managers in lower divisions (given Dutch and Portuguese leagues a level or 2 below PL)
 
Swango1980 said:
Did you not say yesterday how difficult it is to get rid of players at Utd? I'm sure if Amorim or ETH were playing Fantasy Football, there would be many players that would get removed from squad

But, they can't. Not in the short term.

International players can't pick any player in the world. But, luckily for Southgate, he had some of the best, in form international players in the world. Much better than the vast majority of players at teams who would play against. And if there are problem players, they don't get picked. Nowhere near him or his squad

If Southgate came to Utd, he'd be stuck with the squad he has, and only be able to slowly change it every 6 months. He'd have to put up with the bad apples, possibly for several years given their contract
Click to expand...
It is difficult if you don't want to take a financial hit. Do you think that stopped Ferguson if he wanted a player out? Nope, they were gone. Utd are going to have to take some hits in order to get a better squad atmosphere.
 
Bunkermagnet said:
I think you mention the name that IS the Utd problem. Ferguson.
He was excellent at his prime (and I hated him for it) but he has become a ghost that haunts every manager since. Only once Feguson is no longer aorund will Utd finally move forward.
Click to expand...
It's an interesting one. I think the ghost of Clough haunted Forest for a long time after his death. Big personalities certainly can have an impact well beyond their time.
 
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