The Footie Thread

[Billysboots]

Would question though why can’t a player still have a social life even when injured

Does that mean anytime a player misses a game through any sort of injury he needs to become a hermit until he is fit again ?

Will understand questions about the player on the pitch but off the pitch sometimes it’s a case of just looking for something to point fingers at

Even when he did all that work for school meals for kids people were trying to find a way to look for the negative

Something isnt right with Rashford because it wasn’t that long ago he was getting 30 goals in a season and starting for England - was is because of his back issue ?

As the article suggests it’s all about optics, Phil. When a player is seen out enjoying himself, especially if he’s played a part in an appalling defeat hours earlier, it just portrays an image of someone who doesn’t give a toss. And when that is backed up by performances which give the same message it becomes a significant problem.

And the 30 goal season was exactly the same as Emile Heskey’s second season at Liverpool when he somehow managed to score more than 20 across all competitions - misleading.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

As the article suggests it’s all about optics, Phil. When a player is seen out enjoying himself, especially if he’s played a part in an appalling defeat hours earlier, it just portrays an image of someone who doesn’t give a toss. And when that is backed up by performances which give the same message it becomes a significant problem.

And the 30 goal season was exactly the same as Emile Heskey’s second season at Liverpool when he somehow managed to score more than 20 across all competitions - misleading.

Again though should he stay at home even when the team loses ? He is a single young lad who looks like switches off after the game - what should a player do ?

His stats for someone playing from the wide area are not bad apart from the injury hit season he was double figures in every season until 23/24

What happened in the summer of 2023 ? New contract? Falling out ?

 

[Billysboots]

Again though should he stay at home even when the team loses ? He is a single young lad who looks like switches off after the game - what should a player do ?

Try not to look as though he doesn’t care, both on and off the pitch. It’s that simple for me. The timing of one or two of Rashford’s “big nights out” has been suspect to say the least.

What happened in the summer of 2023 ? New contract? Falling out ?

He reverted to type.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Try not to look as though he doesn’t care, both on and off the pitch. It’s that simple for me. The timing of one or two of Rashford’s “big nights out” has been suspect to say the least.



He reverted to type.

I looked at this stats

16/17 half from the bench - 11 goals and 5 assists

17/18 - 13 goals 9 assists
18/19 - 13 goals 8 assists
19/20 - 22 goals 12 assists
20/21 - 21 goals 18 assists
21/22 - 5 goals and 5 assists in 30 games ( shoulder injury )
22/23 - 30 goals and 12 assists
23/24 - 8 goals and 6 assists
24/25 - 11 goals and 9 assists


They are stats of a decent player - outside Salah they are very good

So is it the system ETH went too which started something? A new contract ? Or something else

Thought at one stage he would be a real star for England - it’s a shame to see it happen as I used to remember fearing him when he came on

 

[nickjdavis]

Todays age group football is serving up a real treat in the U-19 semi final between Germany and Spain.

For 60 minutes it seemed that Teutonic efficiency was going to overcome Latin flair as Germany carried a lead from midway through the first half and Spain huffed and puffed trying to break the Germans down.

All that changed on 61 minutes when Spain scored directly from a corner and from then on it looked like there was only going to be one winner. However looks arent every thing and 12 minutes from time a swift German breakway down the right was clinically finished with a shot across the Spanish keeper into the far corner. Spain made substitutions and immediately stepped up the pace and it was only resolute defending that prevented them from equalising until beyond the 90 minute mark when all hell broke loose.

First the German defence failed to clear a loose ball in the box and when it fell to Pablo Garcia (who had scored from the corner) he rifled the ball home from the middle of the box. Five minutes into 7 minutes of time added on, Garcia then grabbed his hat-trick following a superb interchange of passes on the edge of the box before the ball found its way out to the right where he stepped inside and curled a beauty into the far post to put Spain 3-2 up and into the final.

But no. The game had one more twist.

In the 9th added on minute Germany had a free kick wide out on the right, it was hoisted somewhat aimlessly into the box and the Spanish keeper advanced off his line to claim an easy catch around the penalty spot. Said keeper was deceived by the flight of the ball and ran right under it, slipping as he realized his mistake. No matter though, a defender had dropped onto the edge of the six yard box and swung a boot to clear the danger....and sliced the ball straight into his own net!!!

Into extra time and Germany created two good chances in the opening minute and looked like they were more likely to go on and win.

As I'm typing, Garcia has just been denied his 4th goal by the post, but it ricocheted off the wood work, hit the keeper who was unable to react in time and fell perfectly for a Spanish forward to sweep the ball home. Spain should have made it 5-3 just seconds ago with a break through on goal but the keeper (who has a shocker against England in the group stages and perhaps should have dealt with the corner that went in) stood tall and made a fine save.

20 minutes of extra time to go and I reckon the scoring isn't done yet as players tire and space opens up.

....

deept breath, we go again....a swift German break down the right sees a cross deflected by a defender, low onto the keeper and spooned up for a German to nod home from on the goal line. 4-4.

(this game is being played in the same stadium that saw Germany draw 5-5 with England)

....

2 minutes into the second period of extra time and a powerful run through the middle resulted in the ball being squeezed through to the corner of the six yard box for Germany's Moerstedt to slip the ball under the keeper for his own hat-trick. 5-4 to Germany. Spain have just gone and hit the bar!!!

....

112 minutes...a stunning run down the left from Spain's Virgili (who looks a real talent), saw him drive into the box and ram the ball under the German keeper. 5-5

...

117 minutes...Germany are flagged offside....for the first time in the match

...

119 minutes...Virgili does really well, picks up the ball outside the German box, a quick trick and turn to beat the defender and he slips the ball beautifully through for Garcia to drill the ball home from close range...6-5 to Spain.

 

[Tashyboy]

What’s odd about it, Tash?

There’s a whole world of difference between a press article written by a sports journalist local to the club and a a forum member having a dig for the sake of it. And I doubt there will be too many United fans who disagree with a single word of it. We are allowed to like or otherwise agree with anti-United sentiment occasionally!

No, this wouldn’t have happened under Ferguson. And it won’t happen under Amorim. Which is precisely why Rashford has been cast aside and why Garnacho is likely to follow him out of the door.

But that’s just it Billy, even non Utd fans/ forummers don’t disagree with it and stating the obvious don’t mean that fans of other clubs are having a dig at Utd. They are doing the same as Utd fans. Stating the obvious. Not everyone is a WUM.
Another thing puzzles me. Utd fans are the ones that are suffering under the present regime. But some of the players are suffering as well. Garnacho, Rashford and others have gone from being very good players and idolised by fans to being vilified. Why? What has gone off behind the scenes that we don’t know For them to be the way they now are.

 

[Billysboots]

I looked at this stats

16/17 half from the bench - 11 goals and 5 assists

17/18 - 13 goals 9 assists
18/19 - 13 goals 8 assists
19/20 - 22 goals 12 assists
20/21 - 21 goals 18 assists
21/22 - 5 goals and 5 assists in 30 games ( shoulder injury )
22/23 - 30 goals and 12 assists
23/24 - 8 goals and 6 assists
24/25 - 11 goals and 9 assists


They are stats of a decent player - outside Salah they are very good

So is it the system ETH went too which started something? A new contract ? Or something else

Thought at one stage he would be a real star for England

I don’t like being over reliant on stats, especially when they don’t give a full picture.

For me, the Premier League is where it matters most, especially at a club like United which has struggled to re-establish itself for over a decade since Ferguson retired.

2017/18 - 7 goals in 35 appearances.
2018/19 - 10 in 33.
2019/20 - 17 in 31.
2020/21 - 11 in 37.
2021/22 - 4 in 25.
2022/23 - 17 in 35.
2023/24 - 7 in 33.
2024/25 - 4 in 15.

77 Premier League goals in 244 games across 8 seasons is not quite as glossy as the numbers you quote look at first glance, especially when those goals come in bursts, as they most certainly did during his most prolific season in 22/23. He has a tendency to go for extended periods without scoring and, of real significance during those barren spells, he contributes little or nothing to mitigate his failure to find the back of the net. You mention Salah, and whilst I don’t follow him that closely I’m willing to bet that when the Liverpool man isn’t finding the target, he’s still pivotal in much of what his side does. Rashford just isn’t.

For a considerable period of time during the years in question, Marcus Rashford has been regarded as THE man. The saviour and future of a club, the one to build the side around, and the one who will turn things round.

Averaging less than 10 league goals a season, disappearing for weeks at a time when the team needs him most, and his very obvious appalling work ethic mark him out to many United fans, myself included, as someone who is nowhere near worthy of the world class tag which, at times, has been ludicrously attached to him.

His Premier League stats, whilst certainly not poor, can only really be regarded as just above average. Much like the player himself.

 

[Swango1980]

I looked at this stats

16/17 half from the bench - 11 goals and 5 assists

17/18 - 13 goals 9 assists
18/19 - 13 goals 8 assists
19/20 - 22 goals 12 assists
20/21 - 21 goals 18 assists
21/22 - 5 goals and 5 assists in 30 games ( shoulder injury )
22/23 - 30 goals and 12 assists
23/24 - 8 goals and 6 assists
24/25 - 11 goals and 9 assists


They are stats of a decent player - outside Salah they are very good

So is it the system ETH went too which started something? A new contract ? Or something else

Thought at one stage he would be a real star for England

Pre 21/22, most Utd fans were very very supportive of him. Not the best 21/22 season. Sure, injuries may have hampered him, but I think a lot felt his activities outside football were both great, but also a distraction.

There could be many explanations. I sometimes feel that it could simply be down to relationships within the dressing room. Over the years, he has probably built up strong relationships with players like Lingard, Sancho, Pogba, De Gea, etc. Many of these players did not play well for Utd, but were not moved on quickly. If you get so used to a life with some strong bonds with other players, maybe it can be a real negative influence on you when they are being told they are no longer needed by the club. They are never sold quickly either, so plenty of time to have personal chats with each other, slagging off the manager, club, directors, etc.

He had his best season under ETH, when ETH arrived. But, as we all anticipated, ETH needed to clean out that squad. That is what he started to do. Maybe by his second season, Rashford was disillusioned because more of his great friends had fallen out of favour?

Also, not having another 2 or 3 players who get good goal returns also probably didn't help. A lot of the weight of goals fell on Rashford. And, when he wasn't scoring in games, he was getting a lot of criticism, because of his high profile in the game. The school dinner stuff was great, but is Rashford the sort of guy that can deal with such high publicity? Some people can, but some are very shy when it comes to praise, let alone how they react to critical comments.

 

[nickjdavis]

Just to summarise the U-19 madness...

28 mins Spain 0-1 Germany
61 mins Spain 1-1 Germany
78 mins Spain 1-2 Germany
90+1 mins Spain 2-2 Germany
90+5 mins Spain 3-2 Germany
90+9 mins Spain 3-3 Germany
97 mins Spain 4-3 Germany
104 mins Spain 4-4 Germany
107 mins Spain 4-5 Germany
113 mins Spain 5-5 Germany
119 mins Spain 6-5 Germany

Yes the football was at time a little bit naive, but there was a hell of a lot of quality on show and some really talented players, but ultimately what was really apparent was the utter lack of fear to try things and the astonishing level of "we dont know when we are beaten" displayed by both sets of players. Spain had 33 shots on goal (13 on target), Germany 24 shots (9 on target)...you dont get better entertainment than what was on offer tonight.

I only watched because I wanted to see the Spanish left winger Cordero who Newcastle have recently signed....but to be fair, other than a few well delivered crosses and good passes, he had from what i could see, a lackluster game, no more amply demonstrated by a poor penalty. Spain markedly improved when Cordero was substituted (along with others) and his replacement Virgili was magnificent and caused Germany all sorts of issues and had a hand in several of the Spanish goals....seemingly he is on Barcelona's books so not much chance of him being snapped up by anyone in the immediate future.

Can't see Romania v Netherlands serving up the same sort of scoreline but 24 minutes in and its certainly absorbing enough, in front of a big crowd what with Romania being the host nation.

(matches being shown on UEFA TV)

 

[Arthur Wedge]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1937102793547846031

Should sort out their Europa Lge issues

 

[Lord Tyrion]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1937102793547846031

Should sort out their Europa Lge issues

Was there a deadline for this though?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Was there a deadline for this though?

Not sure but according to 5live this should allow them to compete because it’s a full sale

 

[Swango1980]

Not sure but according to 5live this should allow them to compete because it’s a full sale

How accurate are 5Live though?

What have TalkSport said? Is Gabby on this morning?

 

[Red devil]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1937102793547846031

Should sort out their Europa Lge issues

Trump backer who called Chelea "London's team"
What could go wrong?

 

[Billysboots]

Cracking article by Oliver Holt in this morning’s Mail (I know, I know….) about Garnacho and his antics.

He says what many United fans have been longing to hear. That at long last the club has a manger who simply won’t tolerate spoiled brats.

Hope he’s right.

 

[Swango1980]

Cracking article by Oliver Holt in this morning’s Mail (I know, I know….) about Garnacho and his antics.

He says what many United fans have been longing to hear. That at long last the club has a manger who simply won’t tolerate spoiled brats.

Hope he’s right.

That'll be an article I never see, as I don't buy the Mail, nor subscribe to their website.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

That'll be an article I never see, as I don't buy the Mail, nor subscribe to their website.

Good on you. Disgraceful paper.

Cracking article by Oliver Holt in this morning’s Mail (I know, I know….) about Garnacho and his antics.

He says what many United fans have been longing to hear. That at long last the club has a manger who simply won’t tolerate spoiled brats.

Hope he’s right.

How long will the board tolerate him as a manager is the key question

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Cracking article by Oliver Holt in this morning’s Mail (I know, I know….) about Garnacho and his antics.

He says what many United fans have been longing to hear. That at long last the club has a manger who simply won’t tolerate spoiled brats.

Hope he’s right.

It’s a step but didn’t ETH have the same method but potentially was lacking support above ?

Didnt ETH initially get rid of a lot of toxicity in the club and there was supposed to be more togetherness etc

It was interesting to read Ralf Rangnicks wish list of players that he wanted to target when he was supposed to move up to a DoF role

 

[Billysboots]

It’s a step but didn’t ETH have the same method but potentially was lacking support above ?

Didnt ETH initially get rid of a lot of toxicity in the club and there was supposed to be more togetherness etc

It was interesting to read Ralf Rangnicks wish list of players that he wanted to target when he was supposed to move up to a DoF role

Ten Hag dipped his toe in the water but didn’t really get to grips with players whose attitudes stank the place out providing they could put a performance in once in a while.

Rashford was a classic case in point. Occasionally consigned to the naughty step for a day or so before being brought back, but exhibiting absolutely no change in his attitude. Amorim hasn’t stood for it. And it seems he isn’t standing for it with Garnacho.

 

[Swango1980]

Good on you. Disgraceful paper.



How long will the board tolerate him as a manager is the key question

Hopefully a long time, when it comes to discipline anyway.

I don't agree with the "at long last" comment though. At the end of Solskjaer's reign, everyone was saying the squad needs discipline. ETH did that, for example with Ronaldo, Sancho and having to deal with specific incidents with Rashford. However, because we didn't start flying up the league in his second season (and fell down it, albeit with horrendous injury record that wasn't an acceptable excuse to many, though it was a fair excuse for Spurs finishing 17th), then many blamed the manager. Suddenly, it was his fault that he wasn't getting the best out of players like Sancho. It was like he was expected to just magically turn him into a really good player for Utd, and Sancho's attitude was irrelevant.

Amorim obviously saw bad things with Rashford and Garnacho as soon as he arrived, as he dropped them from the squad. Garnacho looked to respond well initially, and got back in. Rashford cried like a big baby, and gave up. But, since Garnacho has had difficult moments since (still in his development stage, it is expected), it is clear he has continued to act like an immature child.

The fans were very supportive of Rashford at the start of his career. They were very supportive of Garnacho, even last season. But, the fans are clearly not on Rashford's side now. And, the Aston Villa shirt has probably tipped the needle against Garnacho now, although it was already heading that way after various social media whinges at the end of last season. So, the fans will tolerate Amorim in terms of disciplining these types of players. I can't see the board thinking any different.