Bunkermagnet
Journeyman Pro
So Ratcliffe says Utd have 1 billion fans and need a new 100k seater stadium. I have no problem if Utd want to build a stadium if any size, just as long as they pay for all of it themselves.
Beezerk
Money List Winner
That new stadium looks mighty impressive 
Haters will hate.
Haters will hate.
garyinderry
Ryder Cup Winner
Someone on Facebook said it looks like a circus tent.
The jokes will write themselves.
The jokes will write themselves.
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
Someone on Facebook said it looks like a circus tent.
The jokes will write themselves.
Looks good at Butlins
Attachments
It's not bad, but it's no Bramley Moore Dock 
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
Must be tough for EvertonIt's not bad, but it's no Bramley Moore Dock
At first they thought they might have the best stadium in the championship in the coming years and then Man Utd trump them
rksquire
Head Pro
As well respected as Foster + Partners are, can't help but feel that this is a vanity project for them exploring relationship of public spaces, movement of people and sustainability.... it does not cry out that this has fans at it's heart (although, to be fair, arguably it does have the City of Manchester at it heart). The actual stadium is not iconic just because they say it is; it has global architectural influences so hard to argue it draws inspiration from the locality but beyond the public spaces it is a massive engineering project.
Clearly with the amount of non-stadium related space and accommodation the plan is to bid for a significant amount of the public purse particularly as part of the narrative is Manchester as the fastest growing City; I think the actual Stadium design isn't quite right - throwing a 'tent' over a large space is akin to the much aligned Millennium Dome, a largely unsuccessful vanity project with the lasting positive being the regeneration of the area beyond.... this has some similarities. Maybe Man U fans will love it!?
Clearly with the amount of non-stadium related space and accommodation the plan is to bid for a significant amount of the public purse particularly as part of the narrative is Manchester as the fastest growing City; I think the actual Stadium design isn't quite right - throwing a 'tent' over a large space is akin to the much aligned Millennium Dome, a largely unsuccessful vanity project with the lasting positive being the regeneration of the area beyond.... this has some similarities. Maybe Man U fans will love it!?
Swango1980
Well-known member
Thanks for your very insightful post. Much appreciated. However, I'll still make the assumption that you would be significantly worse at running a football club than Radcliffe and the people he employs. And, I also don't expect you to have any other opinion that the one you've expressed. There is no need for you to post anything on Utd, because everyone on this thread have been around long enough to know exactly what your opinions are, to the finest detailNot sure what there is to be impressed about when someone has arrived and things have got worse and a lot of his decisions have been awful so far
The club has gone backwards since INEOS arrived
And that’s before publicly being critical of players at the club
Blaming injuries and claims of the squad and manager being good enough
I would be very worried right now
And then with claims of money running out- they announce a massive spend
Man Utd to build 'iconic' £2bn 100,000-capacity stadium close to Old Trafford
Manchester United announce plans to build the biggest stadium in the UK - an "iconic" new £2bn 100,000-seater ground close to Old Trafford.www.bbc.co.uk
Even then the glazers still are the majority owners
It’s going to get worse than it is now imo and the idea he has of being 3 years away from the title is beyond fanciful
It wouldn’t be a stretch to say that relegation is possible over those next 3 years
The damage has been building up for years. It didn't start when Radcliffe got involved. It would be extremely naive / wishful thinking, if it was expected that as soon as Radcliffe and his team got involved, Utd would start seeing instant progress and start climbing up the table. They have clearly had to make many tough decisions, and will continue have to do that over the next few years.
The interview with Neville was around 44 minutes, and the first 38/39 minutes was responding to numerous of the negative aspects that have plagued the start of his tenure, and I felt he answered them honestly. I'm not sure what anyone else would expect. Do Utd fans want Radcliffe to have supreme arrogance, and never believe he makes mistakes. Or admit to mistakes, and thus having confidence that he can learn from them?
You contradict yourself as well. You said he was critical of the players, and in the very next line you slate him for saying the players are good enough. He simply said that the players Utd have available to them are not up to the standard that other clubs have. He didn't pin that on injuries, there are several reasons why Utd have not got the players. One of those, which he specifically mentioned, was that recruitment has been poor for years. We all agree on that, so he isn't denying that.
One thing to remember with the proposed new stadium for Utd, £2bn will not end up being £2bn. The final bill will end up being nearer to £2.5bn, if not more. I'd love to be proved wrong but it seems to be standard for big projects. That's a heck of a debt to add to the existing figure. It may be necessary to do but it will surely impact the clubs spending power for a number of years. Criminal of the owners not to have been updating OT bit by bit over recent years, keeping the big numbers down.
Don Barzini
Assistant Pro
Nice new super stadium for State Sponsored Man Utd. 
Question to those who know more about it than me. When a club builds a new stadium, how does the cost of that stadium get built into PSR rules? Do they have to generate more than the cost of it over a certain period of time etc, same as with transfer/wage fees? Are such costs separate from PSR?
Cheers
Question to those who know more about it than me. When a club builds a new stadium, how does the cost of that stadium get built into PSR rules? Do they have to generate more than the cost of it over a certain period of time etc, same as with transfer/wage fees? Are such costs separate from PSR?
Cheers
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
Thanks for your very insightful post. Much appreciated. However, I'll still make the assumption that you would be significantly worse at running a football club than Radcliffe and the people he employs. And, I also don't expect you to have any other opinion that the one you've expressed. There is no need for you to post anything on Utd, because everyone on this thread have been around long enough to know exactly what your opinions are, to the finest detail
The damage has been building up for years. It didn't start when Radcliffe got involved. It would be extremely naive / wishful thinking, if it was expected that as soon as Radcliffe and his team got involved, Utd would start seeing instant progress and start climbing up the table. They have clearly had to make many tough decisions, and will continue have to do that over the next few years.
The interview with Neville was around 44 minutes, and the first 38/39 minutes was responding to numerous of the negative aspects that have plagued the start of his tenure, and I felt he answered them honestly. I'm not sure what anyone else would expect. Do Utd fans want Radcliffe to have supreme arrogance, and never believe he makes mistakes. Or admit to mistakes, and thus having confidence that he can learn from them?
You contradict yourself as well. You said he was critical of the players, and in the very next line you slate him for saying the players are good enough. He simply said that the players Utd have available to them are not up to the standard that other clubs have. He didn't pin that on injuries, there are several reasons why Utd have not got the players. One of those, which he specifically mentioned, was that recruitment has been poor for years. We all agree on that, so he isn't denying that.
Interview with Neville ?
This is an interview with Dan Roan on BBC
You are going to have to get used to people posting negative about Man Utd
For decades Man Utd and their fans lorded it above everyone whilst they were very successful both on and off the pitch as other teams struggled
Telling people to not post about Man Utd is not really the way to go on an open forum
And lines like “well I’m sure he is better at running a club” etc etc - doesn’t really wash when giving an opinion, there are football managers out there that run a team better than you yet you don’t seem to mind being critical about players they pick
I recall back in the summer many were critical about Ratcliffe sticking with ETH and spending fortunes etc , gone backwards
No one suggested that things would suddenly improve nor expect that - but for things to go even further backwards after multiple poor decisions from INEOS
Their track record running a football club isn’t great
As an owner or part owner when you go public what you say is key
Slagging off players that are currently at the club - never a good thing ,
But as this is a forum - and we can express opinions freely within the rules
IMO - INEOS are making the club worse currently , every decision so far they have made imo has put the club back a step
The club are in a horrific mess - that’s the fault of the glazers , but INEOS aren’t the golden ticket
They may have done well in Cycling when they bought a successful team - football , that’s a different ball game totally
Maybe some see them a shining light because they aren’t the glazers ?
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
You can see there maybe a lot of public funding for it - they are already £1bn in debt , cutting costs everywhere , raising tickets and now want to spend over £2bn on a stadium - where is the money going to come from
I think infrastructure isn’t part of PSR or FFP etcNice new super stadium for State Sponsored Man Utd.
Question to those who know more about it than me. When a club builds a new stadium, how does the cost of that stadium get built into PSR rules? Do they have to generate more than the cost of it over a certain period of time etc, same as with transfer/wage fees? Are such costs separate from PSR?
Cheers
Owners etc can spend what they like if infrastructure
Hence Spurs being £1bn in debt due to then stadium but it doesn’t count for PSR
Everton lost points due to conflict over what was and what was not allowed on stadium costs. There is not a quick answer to this so you will need to google it, but Man Utd will need to read it carefully. Actually, who am I kidding, they can do what they like and they wont lose pointsNice new super stadium for State Sponsored Man Utd.
Question to those who know more about it than me. When a club builds a new stadium, how does the cost of that stadium get built into PSR rules? Do they have to generate more than the cost of it over a certain period of time etc, same as with transfer/wage fees? Are such costs separate from PSR?
Cheers
. In theory, you are allowed to spend on infrastructure and stadium and them not count.
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
Everton lost points due to conflict over what was and what was not allowed on stadium costs. There is not a quick answer to this so you will need to google it, but Man Utd will need to read it carefully. Actually, who am I kidding, they can do what they like and they wont lose points
The Everton cost issue will always be a poor mark on the PSR
They were very clear when they brought rules in that stadium costs etc wouldn’t be included and still to this day I don’t understand how they included losses associated with the stadium in PSR
I'm sure the periphery stuff outside the ground will bring in grant money, possibly council funding, regeneration etc. Same as Everton did for the dock area. If it is genuine regeneration, that is a good thing. The bulk will still have to be from the club though, and it is a big bulk.
Bunkermagnet
Journeyman Pro
Going to look good when benefits for many are slated to be cut, a defense budget that needs huge amounts but we can help build a football stadium for a club up North...
Sorry, but this should have no public expenditure and the club/owners should fund the lot. They are going to reap the rewards.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Why do you leave a line between every sentence. Your posts are long enough, is it just to fill up even more of the thread than you already do?Interview with Neville ?
This is an interview with Dan Roan on BBC
You are going to have to get used to people posting negative about Man Utd
For decades Man Utd and their fans lorded it above everyone whilst they were very successful both on and off the pitch as other teams struggled
Telling people to not post about Man Utd is not really the way to go on an open forum
And lines like “well I’m sure he is better at running a club” etc etc - doesn’t really wash when giving an opinion, there are football managers out there that run a team better than you yet you don’t seem to mind being critical about players they pick
I recall back in the summer many were critical about Ratcliffe sticking with ETH and spending fortunes etc , gone backwards
No one suggested that things would suddenly improve nor expect that - but for things to go even further backwards after multiple poor decisions from INEOS
Their track record running a football club isn’t great
As an owner or part owner when you go public what you say is key
Slagging off players that are currently at the club - never a good thing ,
But as this is a forum - and we can express opinions freely within the rules
IMO - INEOS are making the club worse currently , every decision so far they have made imo has put the club back a step
The club are in a horrific mess - that’s the fault of the glazers , but INEOS aren’t the golden ticket
They may have done well in Cycling when they bought a successful team - football , that’s a different ball game totally
Maybe some see them a shining light because they aren’t the glazers ?
You come on hear and tell Utd fans how they should be feeling, as if we are somehow telling the world different. Not one Utd fan in here has said that INEOS are going to definitely lead Utd to the promised land. Not one Utd fan in here insists that there are no concerns about where we are now, and where we are going (who said INEOS are the Golden Ticket?). Yet, you come on here and patronise us by telling us how we should be feeling, as if we have been saying something completely different, as if you are some sort of world renowned expert in running a football club. And yet, you will continually come on here and have completely opposite opinions on events that occur, simply depending on the football club involved.
So, I will stick with my opinion, if that is OK with you. Radcliffe and INEOS have a massive mess to try and clean up. I hope there is no further decline, but I probably expect there to be some decline and pain to come, because there is a lag in taking action and the results of that action being seen. I still have enough faith in INEOS to make positive changes, as it is clearly in their interest to do so. They don't look like they'll be absent owners who will sit on the other side of the world and pick up their money. Perhaps you have a list of others who would have been better owners. Maybe you think Qatar would have been brilliant owners that would have taken Utd to the top of the Premier league by now, or maybe you think the Glazers themselves were capable enough to turn things around eventually?
Or, maybe you could really post something worthwhile. Instead of posting why people cannot do their job properly, you could just post us an exact blueprint in how Man Utd could turn themselves around to become title challengers next season. It is something that is clearly too difficult for one of the world's leading business men and a team people around him. But not for you. I guess your first proposal would be to get Southgate in as manager?
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
When they are “running out of money” by Xmas and in £1bn worth of debt - where do they get over £2bn from
The Glazers who over 2/3rds of the clubs won’t put in a penny , will INEOS foot the bill for a stadium that they will only own 1/3 off
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
Not sure what that’s got to do with anything - let’s stick to football instead of going a little bit personal should we
Tell you how you should be feeling ? You can feel how ever you want. I know it’s hard to deal with when people are critical about the club you support especially when it’s doing that badly right now but you need to find a way to deal with it
No one said you can’t stick with your opinion
But I’ll also stick to my opinion that they will take the club further backwards
As for who would come in - anyone who would have bought the full club look stock and barrel , with a touch of football knowledge - tough ask.
You deciding what people post and if it’s “worthwhile” or not - is not really the way to go
Said a few times that making the right decisions football wise is key - and so far those decisions have been poor
Ashworth
ETH staying on
And potentially Amorin who appears to have no flexibility within his tactics
Just because someone is a very successful “businessman” doesn’t mean he will be successful in running a football club
As for Southgate- he is a very negative manager , he might well have made Man Utd a touch tougher to beat , might have got more out of the squad that Amorin is
But right now it’s looking like Man Utd may well have their worst season since they were relegated , last season was their worst in the Prem
I suspect the stadium itself will not necessarily get money but the work they do in the surrounds will. Same as other development projects. I'm sure the money aspect will be heavily scrutinised but projects like this can be a real benefit to the area.
