The Footie Thread

[Neilds]

I think the odds are low that UEFA will scrap 2 leg European games to ensure the FA Cup in England can continue to have replays.

I'm not overly bothered by there being no replays in the FA Cup. After all, on the rare occasion that a minnow holds a big team to a draw in 90 minutes, I think they have more chance at giving us an upset in extra time / penalties, than they do having to start the match again, giving the big side time to catch their breath and regroup.

But, what clearly does seem unacceptable, is that the EFL clubs were not in the conversation. At the very least, it gives them a chance to negotiate some sort of better settlement to allow the compromise. Will there ever be a world where the EFL clubs may refuse to play the FA Cup next season in protest?

It's not just about the chance of winning, it is also about the fans having the chance of a day out at a big stadium. Imagine being a Scunthorpe fan with a chance to go to Anfield or similar, would be great memories that the FA and Premier League are trying to take away. but we all know they don't care about fans

 

[PaulMdj]

Are you seriously suggesting clubs should be allowed to pick and chose what cups they play in?

Absolutely, beginning of the season clubs who have qualified for Europe are given a choice, no moaning about fixture congestion, no need to play weakened sides, get on with it.

We’re talking about a max of 8 Clubs, if they all pull out it gives the clubs who do enter more chance of a trophy, lower league Clubs a better chance of progressing further.

I very much doubt any would pull out of the FA Cup, but they might from the Carabao.

It’s more about stop the moaning about fixtures, tiredness etc.

Other top sports, Tennis, Golf etc pick and choose which events they play, why not Football teams?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I think entry should be compulsory, why would sponsors pay if they don't know who will be in, but teams should not be forced to play the bulk of their main team. If they want to play the entire reserve team, they should be allowed to without consequence.

 

[Swango1980]

Time to nail my colours to the mast after this afternoon’s debacle.

I have been a big supporter of Erik ten Hag since his appointment. I like the majority of his signings, like the fact he has brought a bit of discipline and have been largely impressed with the way he has dealt with those who cause dissent within the ranks.

But I still remain unsure what he is trying to achieve on the pitch. I see no plan at all. Regardless of any encouraging results, the underlying performances have largely been abysmal, certainly this season. We can certainly blame some of that on injuries, especially to key defenders, but that doesn’t gloss over some very real problems. United play well in short bursts, periods within games. But they don’t control them.

Today, for an hour or more, they were in complete control. Coventry barely had a sniff. United looked calm in possession, and were able to take a comfortable 2-0 lead in at half time. They started the second half a little too open for a team two goals to the good, but were still able to score a third.

Then the fun starts. For Coventry and the neutrals, at least. Ten Hag makes the frankly baffling decision to withdraw Mainoo and replace him with Eriksen. A young, eager midfielder replaced by an aging and leggy midfielder, who takes his place in midfield alongside the largely anonymous McTominay and in front of one of the slowest centre half pairings I have ever seen. And when Antony joins the action he does so not for the absolutely dreadful Rashford, but Garnacho. Cue the Coventry comeback.

Sure, Coventry City deserve an enormous amount of credit for their performance for the last 18 minutes of the second half and then extra time, but they were largely handed the initiative by managerial decisions made by a man who was naive enough to think his side had the job done. He must have been the only person connected with Manchester United who wasn’t still chewing on their finger nails.

Sorry, I have put up with some dreadful football this season. But I have done so knowing that a structure is being put in place which is long overdue, and which the manager desperately needs. I am sick of seeing managers sacked every couple of years, and was fully supportive of ten Hag being given another season, once that structure is in place, to show us what he is made of.

Sadly, my patience has now been exhausted. If Manchester United, with some of the players at the manager’s disposal, cannot see out the last 18 minutes of an FA Cup semi final when they are 3-0 up against a Championship side and in pretty much complete control, then there is nowhere left to go. The buck for the last 18 minutes today stops with a manager who made some truly baffling decisions, and who was incapable of managing his side over the line.

I will say here and now I have absolutely no clue who the club can bring in. But I no longer have faith that Erik ten Hag is the man to take this club forward. If he goes, and I now think he will in the summer, my big hope is that the players who have let him down so badly are not allowed the opportunity to remain and hide behind the fact that the manager was deemed not up to the job. Too many of them aren’t fit to wear the shirt.

Never thought I’d be so depressed at seeing my team into an FA Cup final, but this afternoon was the final straw.

I get what you are saying, and for me the jury really is still out on ETH. I'm not sure he is a bad manager at all, and assuming he leaves Utd, would not be surprised if he did well somewhere else (not how I felt with Ole obviously). Obviously squad has been plagued by injuries, but now most of the players outside the defence are back. I can't tell if a good chunk of the players are simply terrible players, or just stopped trying knowing big changes are imminent once the season ends.

In regards to his substitutions yesterday, in hindsight the game changed drastically when he made them. But, when he made them at the time, it didn't feel overly controversial. 3-0 up against a Championship side, and pretty much cruising. In a normal world, talking off your most promising and inexperienced players, Garnacho and Mainoo, seems like the right decision. Keep them fresh for the midweek game, and allow the experienced players to stay on the pitch and see the game out. Maybe give Rashford another chance to maybe nick a goal and a boost of confidence, especially if Coventry commit more players forward and he gets the space.

Sadly, the players absolutely bottled it. United breaking forward, Bruno with the ball middle of the pitch and team mates either side. Shall he keep the momentum of the attack and make the easy pass? Na, just lob it over the top for a United player to run through on goal, less than a 5% chance of pulling it off (anyone remember last time United scored such a goal?). Inevitably easily cut out by defender, and suddenly all Utd players breaking forward now need to change direction and charge back.

Antony gets the ball on right wing, we all knew what he was going to do. I begged him, please, don't cut in and shoot. Please please please. But, he cut in, and took a shot when there was a defender about a yard in front (the defender could have reached out and touched him he was that close). Lost possession, and as I remember that is the counter than led to their second goal. Even Eriksen was taking shots with a defender right in front of him.

Not one player wants to create opportunities for Hojlund. It is like they see him as a person to simply run about and occupy defenders, creating space for them to shoot. Or, at best, someone to give the ball to with his back to goal, as long as he gives it back to them, so they can have a shot.

And McTomminay. He scored a very good goal. I dare anyone to talk me through the rest of their memories of his contribution in that game. At one point in normal time, I had just assumed he was brought off at some point when Garnacho and Mainoo were taken off. And then in extra time, he was actually taken off for Forson. I did laugh, because that is exactly what McTomminay gives you. An entire game of invisibility, except when he occasionally scores a goal and reminds you he is playing.

Whatever style ETH wants to play, I very much doubt it is the shambles we are seeing out on the pitch. It is like he is Emilio Estevez in the film The Mighty Ducks, and he has inherited a bunch of misfits and is trying to get them to become a title winning side. Of course, that fil is fantasy, and he got the misfits to become a brilliant team, eventually. But, in this case, I don't think even Emilio Estevez could do anything with these Man Utd players. Not even a Hollywood director would go near that script, as they'd see it as having no credibility at all.

So, I'd still sooner like to see the club being brave, getting rid of some high profile players and bringing in players we can actually get behind. Give ETH another season, as he should know where the problems are. I'll support the new manager if that is what happens, but the concern is that a new manager will have little choice but to give a lot of these players another chance, so he can see at first hand what they are capable off. Every new manager seems to give all these players at least another year or 2 at Man Utd.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

I think entry should be compulsory, why would sponsors pay if they don't know who will be in, but teams should not be forced to play the bulk of their main team. If they want to play the entire reserve team, they should be allowed to without consequence.

Do you remember when arsenal used to do this in the Carling cup?

 

[PaulMdj]

I think entry should be compulsory, why would sponsors pay if they don't know who will be in, but teams should not be forced to play the bulk of their main team. If they want to play the entire reserve team, they should be allowed to without consequence.

But doesn’t playing your reseves devalue the competition as well?

Look at it another way, scrap the Caraboa all together or remove all PL teams, i think we are the only Country that has an extra Cup competition during the season, everyone else has 1.

It was introduced in the 60’s to help Clubs generate extra revenue after bein knocked out the FA Cup, now it starts earlier! Waste of time.

 

[Swango1980]

It's not just about the chance of winning, it is also about the fans having the chance of a day out at a big stadium. Imagine being a Scunthorpe fan with a chance to go to Anfield or similar, would be great memories that the FA and Premier League are trying to take away. but we all know they don't care about fans

I get that side of it, but surely we are talking about events that are pretty rare anyway. In fact, maybe most replays are actually an annoyance for many fans? Having to buy another ticket to go to a game they could really do without? Robbing fans of seeing the match decided in the first game. I've been to such matches, and it honestly felt like a big waste of time. So, should we just keep them for those rare occasions a small club might hold a big club (with a big ground) at home, so they get a trip to that ground in the replay?

Whereas, if the match had to finish on the day, it may increase the odds of the small club going through, getting money for making the next round and still having the dream of drawing one of the big clubs still in the cup.

 

[RichA]

So sorry for Coventry. Marginal (at best) and in the old days that would have been given. The cracks in the United side all so clear to see as soon as the pressure is on. Surely the buck stops with the manager.

There's an equal chance that in the old days the linesman would have flagged offside and we'd be discussing how technology would have solved the ensuing dispute. Either way, it's an unwanted distraction from discussing how awful Manchester United are.

 

[Neilds]

I get that side of it, but surely we are talking about events that are pretty rare anyway. In fact, maybe most replays are actually an annoyance for many fans? Having to buy another ticket to go to a game they could really do without? Robbing fans of seeing the match decided in the first game. I've been to such matches, and it honestly felt like a big waste of time. So, should we just keep them for those rare occasions a small club might hold a big club (with a big ground) at home, so they get a trip to that ground in the replay?

Whereas, if the match had to finish on the day, it may increase the odds of the small club going through, getting money for making the next round and still having the dream of drawing one of the big clubs still in the cup.

8 times in 5 years (according to Shearer yesterday) so not that rare - certainly better odds than a Rotherham away win in the Championship (last win Nov 2022!)

 

[JonnyGutteridge]

My biggest issue with the Forest pens was that while the 1st 2 can be called "subjective", the 3rd pen Taylor pointed to the ball and made an action of " young played the ball". Now for me he never so that must be classed as a clear and obvious error.

Yeh it’s bizarre. I wonder if, when Anthony Taylor watches the game back (if the refs even do that?)… would he be livid with the VAR guys for not overturning it?

I get that refs make mistakes and can’t see everything. There’s plenty of times whilst watching a game that I start shouting at the tv for a foul, see a replay and I’ve clearly seen it wrongly first time around. Surely you’d want your mates to come to your help when you’ve missed something?

Likewise with the Grealish handball. I don’t know how the Lino missed the touch (the ball deflected very clearly downwards) but they gave a goal kick which implies they didn’t think it touched a City player. At that point, VAR is dealing with clear and obvious - does Oliver get home, see the replay and think “I’ve been stitched up here, they’re meant to be helping me out”

If I was a ref I’d be itching to get to the screen for every instance…

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I am right in thinking not all FA cup games have VAR? Surely it has to be a level playing field throughout the competition and you can't have some games in a round using it and others not. If it isn't available to all and clearly in the early rounds it isn't feasible then don't use it at all. Is there anything to make it compulsory anyway

 

[Deleted member 21784]

I am right in thinking not all FA cup games have VAR? Surely it has to be a level playing field throughout the competition and you can't have some games in a round using it and others not. If it isn't available to all and clearly in the early rounds it isn't feasible then don't use it at all. Is there anything to make it compulsory anyway

This is the biggest issue I have with the fa cup and var

If it can't be used every game then it should be scrapped

 

[Lord Tyrion]

But doesn’t playing your reseves devalue the competition as well?

Look at it another way, scrap the Caraboa all together or remove all PL teams, i think we are the only Country that has an extra Cup competition during the season, everyone else has 1.

It was introduced in the 60’s to help Clubs generate extra revenue after bein knocked out the FA Cup, now it starts earlier! Waste of time.

First off, I agree that it should probably be scrapped but lower teams want it for revenue. If that is the case then play it but accept that PL teams will not prioritise it.

Playing the reserves does devalue it but then I think teams already don't think that much of it so we are already there really. They usually rest as many players as they can get away with.

My option, not perfect, gives an element of compromise on all sides.

 

[Neilds]

I am right in thinking not all FA cup games have VAR? Surely it has to be a level playing field throughout the competition and you can't have some games in a round using it and others not. If it isn't available to all and clearly in the early rounds it isn't feasible then don't use it at all. Is there anything to make it compulsory anyway

Only available at Premier League grounds. Similar to (i think) tennis where hawkeye isn't available on the outside courts of a competition (certainly was the case at Wimbledon). How can this be fair where it is one set of rules for one set of teams/players and not the rest?

 

[PaulMdj]

I am right in thinking not all FA cup games have VAR? Surely it has to be a level playing field throughout the competition and you can't have some games in a round using it and others not. If it isn't available to all and clearly in the early rounds it isn't feasible then don't use it at all. Is there anything to make it compulsory anyway

Been like this since VAR was introduced, same in the Caraboa cup as well.

 

[Swango1980]

Only available at Premier League grounds. Similar to (i think) tennis where hawkeye isn't available on the outside courts of a competition (certainly was the case at Wimbledon). How can this be fair where it is one set of rules for one set of teams/players and not the rest?

It is the same set of rules, just a different way of monitoring them.

Just like the bigger games will have the top, highly trained referees officiating them (although it often doesn't feel like it), whereas most of the games in the early rounds, featuring teams we have and never will hear off, don't have that level of referee.

Sure, they could scrap VAR completely for the FA Cup. But then I will guarantee that as soon as the onfield ref makes a howler, or a major offside decision is incorrect, there'd be even more people screaming that VAR should be used. They'd be saying that the technology is there, why are we not using it, when there are no infrastructure or financial constraints stopping us.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

First off, I agree that it should probably be scrapped but lower teams want it for revenue. If that is the case then play it but accept that PL teams will not prioritise it.

Playing the reserves does devalue it but then I think teams already don't think that much of it so we are already there really. They usually rest as many players as they can get away with.

My option, not perfect, gives an element of compromise on all sides.

We are also one of the last top leagues to care about the domestic cup.

 

[PaulMdj]

First off, I agree that it should probably be scrapped but lower teams want it for revenue. If that is the case then play it but accept that PL teams will not prioritise it.

Playing the reserves does devalue it but then I think teams already don't think that much of it so we are already there really. They usually rest as many players as they can get away with.

My option, not perfect, gives an element of compromise on all sides.

So one Cup is needed for revenue and the other one we are binning replays?

As you say some PL teams don’t want to play in it or take it serious.

Agreed, bin it

 

[PaulMdj]

This talk of VAR and Cups also has an impact on replays, no VAR at some games, dodgy pitches and, possibly massive pay days for the lower league Clubs.

Need to bring the PL crashing down.

 

[Orikoru]

It does sting a little that we punish League One and Two clubs by abolishing replays, while the Champion's League expands to 40 teams and more games just to make more money for the big clubs. Steal from the poor and give to the rich.

Less international games would be a start as well. Scrap the utterly pointless Nations League games, and take out about a third of the friendlies as well. We have several players who'll be knocking on the door of 150 caps when they retire which used to be unheard of. Nobody cares about these international games.