The Footie Thread

[rudebhoy]

That list of Clubs that have won European Trophies or reached European finals? How Spanish teams in the lower levels of La Liga have done the same?

Maybe it’s some of your anti-English bias coming through?

Sevilla (currently 13th in La Liga), have won the UEFA Cup / Europa League SEVEN times since 2006. The latest win being last season. Villareal (currently 9th) won it in 2021.

Hardly "championship standard".

 

[Lord Tyrion]

And, of course, Man Utd and Newcastle were very very disappointing.

The two that went through from Newcastle's group are in the semis. They were seconds from eliminating PSG, and going through themselves, when a controversial penalty put them out. Bit harsh to say they were very, very disappointing. Tough group, acknowledged by most.

 

[Swango1980]

That list of Clubs that have won European Trophies or reached European finals? How Spanish teams in the lower levels of La Liga have done the same?

Maybe it’s some of your anti-English bias coming through?

You are actually having a laugh, right?

I support a Premier League side, and despite being N Irish, I actually want to see the England National side do well (unless against N Ireland). I've generally always liked to see other English sides do well in European competition, because I know more about them than the European sides (except Liverpool). I'm definitely NOT anti-English, I simply don't think they are as good relative to European clubs as some like to think.

How many of those clubs I listed have won a European Trophy in the Premier League era, God forbid anything even more recently? What about other European clubs that have got to the Champions League final (or top European trophy), Monaco, Valencia, Marseille, Sampdoria, Red Star Belgrade, Steaua Bucharest, PSV, Hamburg. They've all appeared since 1980, when Forest won it. If we are judging the lower half of the Premier league more highly than other leagues because Forest won the European Cup in 1980, we are clutching at straws

 

[Swango1980]

The two that went through from Newcastle's group are in the semis. They were seconds from eliminating PSG, and going through themselves, when a controversial penalty put them out. Bit harsh to say they were very, very disappointing. Tough group, acknowledged by most.

To be fair, I was mainly thinking about Man Utd. With Newcastle, it was more that they'd be very disappointed as they were close to getting through in a tough group, than majorly disappointed with their performances. Especially with injuries.

 

[PaulMdj]

You are actually having a laugh, right?

I support a Premier League side, and despite being N Irish, I actually want to see the England National side do well (unless against N Ireland). I've generally always liked to see other English sides do well in European competition, because I know more about them than the European sides (except Liverpool). I'm definitely NOT anti-English, I simply don't think they are as good relative to European clubs as some like to think.

How many of those clubs I listed have won a European Trophy in the Premier League era, God forbid anything even more recently? What about other European clubs that have got to the Champions League final (or top European trophy), Monaco, Valencia, Marseille, Sampdoria, Red Star Belgrade, Steaua Bucharest, PSV, Hamburg. They've all appeared since 1980, when Forest won it. If we are judging the lower half of the Premier league more highly than other leagues because Forest won the European Cup in 1980, we are clutching at straws

You discussed La Liga and listed Clubs at the bottom of the PL, now you’ve expanded to other countries!! Can you not stick to your point.

You tell us about your love of the PL etc but seem to take delight in criticising the national team when you can and it took you no time at all to tell us how you thought the results last night were a major disappointment.

In your opinion the PL isn’t the best league in the world, fine, I do, differing opinions are allowed, but please, do tell what you think is the best league in the world.

 

[Orikoru]

Mbappe desperate to go to Real Madrid, which is where Bellingham wanted to go. Messi never seemed interested in the Premier League? There are many fantastic players than play in other leagues in the world. But, many of us see the Premier League week in, week out, and will have more bias towards PL players. Simply because we see them every week and remember all the great performances they have put in. There'll be less focus on the great performances players in other leagues put in every week.

And, people always seem really dismissive of teams outside the very top European teams. After Real Madrid, Barcelona and Athletico and maybe one or 2 others, there seems to be a feeling all other clubs are Championship standard. Are they? Maybe it is just my impression, but it seems that it is often other European teams from Spain and Italy, for example, that do well in the lesser European competitions. Do they not generally do better than PL teams?

And, in all honesty, if I was Spanish and a big La Liga fan, I'd probably say exactly the same thing about the Premier League. That outside the top 6 or so clubs, everyone else is La Liga 2 standard. I don't think they look at clubs like Sheffield Utd, Burnley, Luton, Forest, Everton, Brentford, Palace, Bournemouth, Fulham and Wolves as being anything special at all.

Players want to play for Real and Barca as they are traditionally the biggest clubs in the world - particularly for South Americans it seems. That doesn't mean La Liga is the best league in the world. There are 20 teams in a league not just the top ones.

It goes in stages anyway. 20 years ago Serie A was the best league, but they're barely 4th best now.

 

[Orikoru]

Sorted that for you

A distinction without a difference. If you want to know why the Prem is the best league, then yeah, of course money is the main factor.

 

[PaulMdj]

Sevilla (currently 13th in La Liga), have won the UEFA Cup / Europa League SEVEN times since 2006. The latest win being last season. Villareal (currently 9th) won it in 2021.

Hardly "championship standard".

I agree, but it was him who listed the current bottom six in the PL as to making a point.

 

[PaulMdj]

The two that went through from Newcastle's group are in the semis. They were seconds from eliminating PSG, and going through themselves, when a controversial penalty put them out. Bit harsh to say they were very, very disappointing. Tough group, acknowledged by most.

Plus the Newcastle from last season are not the same team Newcastle we are seeing this year.

 

[Swango1980]

You discussed La Liga and listed Clubs at the bottom of the PL, now you’ve expanded to other countries!! Can you not stick to your point.

You tell us about your love of the PL etc but seem to take delight in criticising the national team when you can and it took you no time at all to tell us how you thought the results last night were a major disappointment.

In your opinion the PL isn’t the best league in the world, fine, I do, differing opinions are allowed, but please, do tell what you think is the best league in the world.

You seem to be either very confused with the point I'm making, or you are deliberately picking holes where they do not exist.

I've obviously mentioned La Liga as it is one of the strongest European Leagues. But, you must be aware that even I realise that clubs like Bayern Munich and PSG are not Spanish? I wasn't directly comparing the PL to La Liga, I was talking about the quality of PL clubs against other European leagues.

I love watching the Premier League, it doesn't mean that I blindly call it the best league in the world any chance I get. I love Man Utd, but I'm quicker than ever to criticising them. Loving or liking something doesn't mean you can't also be critical.

I try and not fall into the trap of defining the best league in the world, because what metrics are you using? Most money, who spends most in transfer windows, highest wages, recent or distant history, number of fans, performances on the pitch? If someone was to tell me that Premier league clubs have the most money, all the way through the league, then they win on that metric (and I wouldn't be surprised if it is true). But, I certainly don't think the quality of Premier League clubs is above some of the other top leagues in Europe at this time. The only way we'll truly ever find out is if we scrap domestic leagues, pile them all into one big European league and see how they do. The closest we get to see how they do against each other is in the European Competitions they do play in against each other. So far, the Champions League has not given us any evidence this season that PL clubs are the best in the world.

But, if Forest winning the European Cup in 1980 proves your point that the PL is the best, then no problem. We all have our own thoughts as to what makes something better.

 

[PaulMdj]

You seem to be either very confused with the point I'm making, or you are deliberately picking holes where they do not exist.

I've obviously mentioned La Liga as it is one of the strongest European Leagues. But, you must be aware that even I realise that clubs like Bayern Munich and PSG are not Spanish? I wasn't directly comparing the PL to La Liga, I was talking about the quality of PL clubs against other European leagues.

I love watching the Premier League, it doesn't mean that I blindly call it the best league in the world any chance I get. I love Man Utd, but I'm quicker than ever to criticising them. Loving or liking something doesn't mean you can't also be critical.

I try and not fall into the trap of defining the best league in the world, because what metrics are you using? Most money, who spends most in transfer windows, highest wages, recent or distant history, number of fans, performances on the pitch? If someone was to tell me that Premier league clubs have the most money, all the way through the league, then they win on that metric (and I wouldn't be surprised if it is true). But, I certainly don't think the quality of Premier League clubs is above some of the other top leagues in Europe at this time. The only way we'll truly ever find out is if we scrap domestic leagues, pile them all into one big European league and see how they do. The closest we get to see how they do against each other is in the European Competitions they do play in against each other. So far, the Champions League has not given us any evidence this season that PL clubs are the best in the world.

But, if Forest winning the European Cup in 1980 proves your point that the PL is the best, then no problem. We all have our own thoughts as to what makes something better.

But happy to tell others they’re wrong.

 

[Swango1980]

I agree, but it was him who listed the current bottom six in the PL as to making a point.

You are wrong again.

I listed 10 clubs. And, that was in response to another poster who said the bottom half of the Spanish league is Championship level. There are 20 clubs in the Premier league. The bottom 10 is the bottom half.

 

[Swango1980]

But happy to tell others they’re wrong.

Ditto

 

[PaulMdj]

You are wrong again.

I listed 10 clubs. And, that was in response to another poster who said the bottom half of the Spanish league is Championship level. There are 20 clubs in the Premier league. The bottom 10 is the bottom half.

So were the bottom 6 in your list or not?

 

[PaulMdj]

Ditto

How can I say you’re wrong when you won’t/can’t say what the best league in the world is?

 

[Swango1980]

So were the bottom 6 in your list or not?

Of course they were. The bottom 6 happen to also be in the bottom half. Therefore, completely relevant when talking about the bottom half of the Premier League, when someone else referenced the bottom half of La Liga.

it wouldn't make sense if I compared the top 6 to the bottom half of La Liga, or League 1 or League 2 clubs, would it?

 

[Swango1980]

How can I say you’re wrong when you won’t/can’t say what the best league in the world is?

I'm not labelling one league best in the world, because whatever metric that is used, others will just use a different one to say "you are wrong" when trying to stick to their favourite league. Like you are doing.

But, I am saying I doubt that the Premier League is as strong as people believe, and you seem to be one of those people who look to vigorously defend against any such comment that suggest it isn't the strongest. So, you are disagreeing with my comment that it could well not be the best, based on performances on the pitch. Which is fine, that is what happens in debates. Two sides put across opposing arguments

 

[Bdill93]

Biggest night in Villas recent history tonight! Will be absolutely thrilled if we can get through - but no easy feat - Lille have the best home record in the french top division.

1 goal lead going into it, lets go out and get the job done boys!!

UP THE VILLA

 

[Hobbit]

If the EPL is the best league in the world, and I’ve heard this for years, why aren’t the 4 English teams that qualify for the CL contesting the semi finals every year?

I prefer the EPL over La Liga but that’s purely because of the style of football played. As for the bottom half of La Liga is Championship standard, it’s not that good. I get to see a fair bit of it, sometimes in the flesh at Almeria. Poor stadiums, fans who are quite happy to spend most of the match chatting, matches that are played at half speed apart from the final commitment to score.

 

[PaulMdj]

I'm not labelling one league best in the world, because whatever metric that is used, others will just use a different one to say "you are wrong" when trying to stick to their favourite league. Like you are doing.

But, I am saying I doubt that the Premier League is as strong as people believe, and you seem to be one of those people who look to vigorously defend against any such comment that suggest it isn't the strongest. So, you are disagreeing with my comment that it could well not be the best, based on performances on the pitch. Which is fine, that is what happens in debates. Two sides put across opposing arguments

This whole debate was initiated by your statement “It seems like all English teams in the Champions League have ultimately been a major disappointment this season.”

That, imo, is a complete overreaction to the truth, do I believe the PL is currently the best league in the world? Yes, absolutely.

Does this mean we currently have the best Club in the World? Also Yes, in Man City.

Neither of the above statements mean they are unbeatable or there aren’t other strong leagues and Clubs.