Bunkermagnet
Journeyman Pro
Was last night down to Pep with his tactics and substiutions?
Golfmmad
Tour Winner
I was thinking the same. With penalties looming why take off your best striker!
I was thinking the same. With penalties looming why take off your best striker!
Haaland and KDB both asked to come off apparently. Either carrying knocks or completely spent. Either way, Pep suggests neither was a tactical switch.
Swango1980
Well-known member
It seems like all English teams in the Champions League have ultimately been a major disappointment this season. Maybe Premier League teams are not quite good as some in the media like to have us believe. Certainly able to compete with the best in Europe (some of them), unlike how it felt sometimes in the recent past, but not head and shoulders better. Real Madrid, Bayern, etc have some amazing players of their own, and it doesn't matter if a team looks to have 80% possession, when a quality opponent can defend well and can be quick and decisive in attack.
I think the only City player to walk with their head held high after last night was Kyle Walker. I was flicking between games, but every time I saw him he was outstanding.
I think the only City player to walk with their head held high after last night was Kyle Walker. I was flicking between games, but every time I saw him he was outstanding.
Two teams in the QF, one beaten by the previous champions of Germany, the other by the likely champions of Spain this season. One by the odd goal, the other by penalties. How is that a major disappointment? It's a disappointment, but major? It's tough to win those games, fine margins. Nothing to be ashamed of there.
Dando
Q-School Graduate
or maybe they just didn't fancy taking a penalty
Pin-seeker
Well-known member
Can’t see it.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Precisely. Last week's first legs brought a 2-2 and a 3-3. You rarely used to see scores like that when away goals was in place as the home team would sit back and try and get a 0-0 or 1-0 win. It's better without it.
He never did anything anyway, besides finishing. That's all he's there for. If he looks less effective this season it may just be that City are creating slightly less chances since losing Mahrez and Gundogan. I don't have the xG stats though or anything so who knows.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Well, to be fair, if some think reaching as far as the QF is not a major disappointment, then that is a subjective opinion.
I reckon if I asked a lot of City fans if they'd be happy reaching the QF only, many would be more than slightly or even averagely disappointed. For a team that many say is the best on the planet, by a good distance, then getting beat in the QF is far from what is expected. And, a lot seemed to be coming round to the fact that Arsenal have finally arrived, and able to challenge the best team on the planet. But, recently, their results have surely been a big disappointment to many?
As regards to your last point, at no point did I ever say anyone needs to feel ashamed (well, players and officials from the Clubs anyway, but maybe some in the media need to re-evaluate their thoughts). Also, when you said it is "tough to win those games", that was the entire point I was making. Real Madrid, Bayern, etc are no pushovers. Even if they had got through, clubs like PSG are also very dangerous. Hence why I said Premier league teams are probably not good as many people make them out to be. Many will be disappointed because they assume the best PL clubs are the best in Europe, thus having 4 sides in the competition, 2 not getting out of the group and 2 not getting past the QF is a poor return.
Clearly they would rather win than lose but you need to look at who won and how they won, not necessarily at the stage they won. If City had lost to Real in the semis or the final, would that be better? Psychologically, perhaps, but they would still have lost to Real. They got drawn against them in the quarters, it's the knockout stage, it happened. Had they lost 3-0 you could say major disappointment in terms of performance but going out on penalties, it's fine margins.
Same can be said for Arsenal. They weren't stuffed, they went out by one goal. Disappointing but not to the stage where anyone should run around pulling their hair out.
Apparently Everton have had great XG stats in games they have lost this yearI don't have the xG stats though or anything so who knows.
. Just about the most useless statistic in football 
.Agree about Harland though. He is a pure finisher, he doesn't offer much else. He hasn't been quite on it this year so that makes him look worse. Also not helped at times by City's slow build up I suspect. You would rather have him than not though.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Not like Jackson of Chelsea then.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Well, it's essentially a measure of how many chances you create in games and how decent your finishing is. If the xG is high and you're losing / not scoring, you need to take a serious look at your strikers. Teams with goals higher than their xG are typically good at finishing or scoring a higher than average proportion of long-range 'worldies'.Apparently Everton have had great XG stats in games they have lost this year
Agree about Harland though. He is a pure finisher, he doesn't offer much else. He hasn't been quite on it this year so that makes him look worse. Also not helped at times by City's slow build up I suspect. You would rather have him than not though.
Funnily enough, if you look at the metric of xG vs actual goals, Haaland is the worst finisher in the league, behind Darwin Nunez and your very own Calvert-Lewin. Probably swayed by the cheer numbers City create I'm sure.
It's a wonder City are top with both strikers in the top ten worst finishers.
Maybe you were right about it being a useless stat. Although not a surprise to see TCL, Darwin and Jackson there.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Just for balance, here are the 'best' finishers. Can't help but think Palmer's is swayed by all the penalties a little bit.
Swango1980
Well-known member
As I said, it is subjective. I believe it is a major disappointment for many. Just as many are clearly majorly disappointed if England were to get knocked out in the last 16 or QF to a team like France, Spain or Italy.
Everything you say, I agree with. Other European teams have quality players. But, from what I've read and heard in much of the media over a long time, and especially over the last week or so as the tie approaches, is just how good City are, and Arsenal now. It is clear many expected the PL sides to almost breeze through. Even after the first leg draws, many seemed to make City absolute clear favourites. I didn't see it, as I look at teams like Real Madrid and see some absolute quality players. But, it seems many in the media can barely look past players like De Bruyne, Haaland, Foden, etc and simply believe they are just way too strong for any other team.
For those that are very realistic, and know PL teams are not a class above other European teams, I'm sure they are not disappointed. But to the many who think otherwise, it will be a major disappointment (unless of course they are not City and Arsenal fans, and were really hoping they'd lose, in which case it is party time)
Swango1980
Well-known member
If a team is tied on points and goal difference and number of goals scored, can they use xG to separate teams?Apparently Everton have had great XG stats in games they have lost this year
Agree about Harland though. He is a pure finisher, he doesn't offer much else. He hasn't been quite on it this year so that makes him look worse. Also not helped at times by City's slow build up I suspect. You would rather have him than not though.
I think it is a useless stat, because I believe it completely ignores any great chance where a player fails to play the assist pass. So, you could have a player who breaks into absolutely brilliant open positions, and only needs to play a simple cross along ground to a striker in the 6 yard box, but doesn't and nothing adds to xG. Yet, you could have a player who shoots from 40 yards, and it probably adds at least a small amount to xG.
I've only noticed this after watching several Man Utd games, where 3 or 4 times a player has got themselves into an unbelievable position. But, then they decide not to play the easiest ball in the world, and instead just run into a brick wall. Or they try to run in on goal, and then make the worst touch of all time to end their chance of having a one on one (mainly thinking Rashford). You then see an xG stat of about 0.02 or something stupid, yet there have been 3 or 4 moments in the half you've been expecting the net to bulge in a second or 2. I suppose it is fair enough, as it would become such a complicated stat if they tried to account for every single attacking move that breaks down before the final shot comes about. But, in reality, all it really is is a more advanced shot conversion rate.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Teams in Europe are not scared of City or Gunners like some PL teams are.
Gunners need a striker and any weakness is shown up at this level.
City are a very good side but big European clubs think differently than a lot of PL teams who’s only game plan is to avoid relegation.
rudebhoy
Q-School Graduate
We keep being told that the EPL is the best league in the world. Maybe that needs to be reassessed after this year's performances?
PJ87
Journeyman Pro
The league is about to be won for the 4th time in a row by city
How really can it be the best when it's not much different from Spain in that sense
Domination
PaulMdj
Well-known member
Why? Being the best in the World doesn’t mean unbeatable.
