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The Footie Thread

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clubchamp98 said:
Not to the VAR official it wasn’t
I agree it was never a pen.
But the ref has to be stronger and tell him he’s wrong..

But in this case like so many others we have two Qualified referees with polar opposite opinions but one has changed his mind on very clear evidence that proved it hit his chest first.

your entitled to your opinion though.👍👍
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It sounds like we agree on most of it.

1, it shouldnt have been a pen
2, ref should have said no to the VAR

The only difference is I dont think VAR should have asked the ref to look at it. As you say, 2 qualified refs looking at the same incident cant agree and that is whats causing the issues. The decisions are still subjective.
 
Tashyboy said:
I thought exactly the same, only just had time to respond. Again look at the Fa cup. If the home team is a Prem team we have VAR. If not, no VAR so linesman Has to flag. It does my head in. Referees reffing a game differently depending what ground there at.
Re last nights penalty decision. The UEFA rules are clear from April. If it comes off the body and hits the arm no penalty. That’s the rules, surely one of the two officials ( Ref and VAR) should have known that and at that point said lthe rules state that is not a penalty”.
Why is just the VAR guy stood down from last night though. Shocking.
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But that was just a recommendation from the advisory board.... UEFA never actually implemented that aspect (deflecting off another part of the body) of the handball rule.

Still...if VAR had been consistent PSG would have had another penalty for the Miley handball and lord knows what might have happened if VAR had chosen to look at the Skriniar handball when he fell on the ball as Isak was about to be through on goal, heaven forbid they may have felt pressured into red-carding a home player!!!
 
If VAR needs to over rule the on field ref, fine. That’s the same as cricket. Asking the onfield ref to change his mind, after showing him 27 different angles and slo-mo speeds, is wrong. If the is is clear evidence for the off field ref, as per cricket, change the decision.
 
SteveW86 said:
It sounds like we agree on most of it.

1, it shouldnt have been a pen
2, ref should have said no to the VAR

The only difference is I dont think VAR should have asked the ref to look at it. As you say, 2 qualified refs looking at the same incident cant agree and that is whats causing the issues. The decisions are still subjective.
Click to expand...

This is the reason VAR fails across the board.

If subjectivity cannot ever be removed then VAR should be and we should just go back to on field decisions plus goal line tech and the automated offside thing they now have. Facts are facts.
 
OK, I am confused now. Does VAR go to the ref with a decision. In rugby (and that system has its faults) the video ref points out incidents that the ref may want to look at but, unless asked for an opinion, they do not give an actual decision to be upheld by the ref and so they tell the ref that there is an incident of potential foul play that they may want to look at and the ref then looks at that makes the call or, if the video ref is certain of the offence then the ref may simply accept their call and make the decision but the ref is always the final arbiter

By the way, is it not time that it was a condition that every premier league ground has a big screen so as the ref can see the action on that rather than running off the pitch every time. It helps the crowd understand as well. We have them in rugby and we are absolutely skint, surely football clubs can find the cash down the back of the sofa to fit them.
 
clubchamp98 said:
Yes but in this case VAR was wrong. but the ref bottled it he should have corrected them after looking at the screen.

His job is to get it correct no matter the pressure from VAR or home fans!

I never said “review everything”

but a penalty in extra time ???
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It is interesting that on one hand you think VAR was correct in calling the referee to review the decision, yet VAR was wrong in thinking it could be a penalty. In the words of Roy Keane "That is their job". Not to ask referees to review any decision at critical points of the game, even if it is a farce. But to ask the referee to review a decision when they think there is a good reason he made a mistake. And not just because they are 51/49 in thinking it is a mistake (as that is quite clearly subjective), but that they are more like 80/20 he made a mistake, thus making it a more obvious review.

So, VAR were just plain wrong, and it was a shocking decision to ask for the review.

Yes, the referee then also needs to take responsibility. However, in my previous post, I tried to outline reasons that mitigate why he might have caved. He's also a human being, and no matter how strong you want him to be, he has to leave the stadium at some point. He has to go to the airport and catch a flight home. Given what happened to Taylor a season or so ago, I wouldn't fancy doing any of that with hundreds of angry French people all around me. Especially when they are fully aware 2 or 3 VAR officials all thought it was probably a penalty, and this single onfield official went against that. At least without VAR, you can partly forgive a ref for missing something live, but as a fan you might have got it wrong yourself. But as a fan, when you see a VAR review, you now are 100% aware that the footage must indicate a penalty. So, if the VAR guys have communicated to him that they've seen something in the last 3 minutes they looked at it, then in the 20 to 30 seconds he is getting at the monitor, he is probably doubting his decision, and maybe missing something they all think they've seen.

Also, I noticed that when they showed him the images on the monitor, they did the usual focus on one angle, did the still and super slow mo back and forth, and used the images that made it look most like a pen (even though it still didn't). As soon as he walked away and gave the final decision, it showed the video to the other side, which looked nothing like a penalty (still in slow mo). I'm not sure they ever showed him the images in real speed. So, VAR are basically giving the onfield ref biased footage, in that it is geared up to justify why they brought him over in the first place. If they bring him over for a potential handball, they are automatically going to disregard any footage that doesn't back up their reason to bring him over in the first place.
 
I must admit....the supporters need to see what the referee is being shown. Whilst the VAR review was ongoing the TV feed was showing multiple replays of the full ball travel from the boot, to the chest to the elbow. If the ref was only shown the few frames where the ball struck the elbow then that is plainly wrong.
 
Swango1980 said:
It is interesting that on one hand you think VAR was correct in calling the referee to review the decision, yet VAR was wrong in thinking it could be a penalty. In the words of Roy Keane "That is their job". Not to ask referees to review any decision at critical points of the game, even if it is a farce. But to ask the referee to review a decision when they think there is a good reason he made a mistake. And not just because they are 51/49 in thinking it is a mistake (as that is quite clearly subjective), but that they are more like 80/20 he made a mistake, thus making it a more obvious review.

So, VAR were just plain wrong, and it was a shocking decision to ask for the review.

Yes, the referee then also needs to take responsibility. However, in my previous post, I tried to outline reasons that mitigate why he might have caved. He's also a human being, and no matter how strong you want him to be, he has to leave the stadium at some point. He has to go to the airport and catch a flight home. Given what happened to Taylor a season or so ago, I wouldn't fancy doing any of that with hundreds of angry French people all around me. Especially when they are fully aware 2 or 3 VAR officials all thought it was probably a penalty, and this single onfield official went against that. At least without VAR, you can partly forgive a ref for missing something live, but as a fan you might have got it wrong yourself. But as a fan, when you see a VAR review, you now are 100% aware that the footage must indicate a penalty. So, if the VAR guys have communicated to him that they've seen something in the last 3 minutes they looked at it, then in the 20 to 30 seconds he is getting at the monitor, he is probably doubting his decision, and maybe missing something they all think they've seen.

Also, I noticed that when they showed him the images on the monitor, they did the usual focus on one angle, did the still and super slow mo back and forth, and used the images that made it look most like a pen (even though it still didn't). As soon as he walked away and gave the final decision, it showed the video to the other side, which looked nothing like a penalty (still in slow mo). I'm not sure they ever showed him the images in real speed. So, VAR are basically giving the onfield ref biased footage, in that it is geared up to justify why they brought him over in the first place. If they bring him over for a potential handball, they are automatically going to disregard any footage that doesn't back up their reason to bring him over in the first place.
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I think they were correct to ask him to look.
But what we think ( no pen) most fans would agree In UK.

But given the rule was only a recommendation VAR you could argue was correct and it follows so was the ref.
Its a problem if over Europe rules are interpreted differently than the PL
To me this looks like what’s happened.
So who’s right and who’s wrong.
Its a mess.
 
clubchamp98 said:
I think they were correct to ask him to look.
But what we think ( no pen) most fans would agree In UK.

But given the rule was only a recommendation VAR you could argue was correct and it follows so was the ref.
Its a problem if over Europe rules are interpreted differently than the PL
To me this looks like what’s happened.
So who’s right and who’s wrong.
Its a mess.
Click to expand...
So they were wrong not to ask the ref to review the earlier "Handball"?

Either way, there is a big mess in this match. Either the VAR is instructed to ask the referee to review every incident, even if they think he got it spot on. Or they only ask the ref to review something they think he got wrong. Whatever their instruction (I suspect is is the latter), the VAR operator messed up.
 
Swango1980 said:
So they were wrong not to ask the ref to review the earlier "Handball"?

Either way, there is a big mess in this match. Either the VAR is instructed to ask the referee to review every incident, even if they think he got it spot on. Or they only ask the ref to review something they think he got wrong. Whatever their instruction (I suspect is is the latter), the VAR operator messed up.
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Well it’s not consistent that’s the problem in the interpretation of the handball rule.

Well we all agree it’s an absolute mess.

But on the news this week they were saying VAR is due to get more involved ,second yellows ,free kicks etc.🙈

Be plenty to discuss
 
clubchamp98 said:
Well it’s not consistent that’s the problem in the interpretation of the handball rule.

Well we all agree it’s an absolute mess.

But on the news this week they were saying VAR is due to get more involved ,second yellows ,free kicks etc.🙈

Be plenty to discuss
Click to expand...
And that is scary as hell. If they can't even get the most important decisions correct with the desired consistency fans generally want (and throw in some absolute howlers), just imagine how horrendous it will be if they get involved in more decisions, many of which of even more subjective nature. There'll come a point there will be no need for an onfield referee (at least the abuse to him will stop). Just have 3 guys in a studio, who can send text to the big screen in the stadium to inform teams what every decision is.

Boys and their toys
 
Big question to ask, where is @ColchesterFC ? He hasn't been seen since entering the pub to watch the game last night. Has he gone native and moved in there? Did the locals lose it after the penalty decision and he was identified, by the wearing of a coat, as an outsider and locked in the cellar?
 
Are Man Utd the worst team in the world's top leagues at gaining any sort of possession? As a fan, there is never a game I ever feel I can just chill out for most of it as they are comfortable. Even against the lower teams
 
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